Body off restoration

[Madmal]

Hi All,

 

Spent the last 2 years getting the TR in a reasonable state and is now running well, although a few things are beginning to niggle me. The panel gaps must have been set by Stevie Wonder and there's a few oil drips from the engine and gearbox. The car was subject to a previous body off restoration in 2007 but the current owner could not complete it and it was sold to the next owner who paid a garage to finish it. The paint work is not great, although passable from a distance, so i'm now considering undertaking another full restoration on it. I have the time and funds, to a point, but would be very grateful for all your views on how complex this could turn out to be. In particular:

 

1. I have a double width garage with bench and racking so I could work on the chassis but the shell would have to sit outside. Is this workable?

2. How easy is it to adjust the panel gaps and is there any reference material I could acquire that may help?

3. The engine and gearbox seem fine but it would seem prudent to overhaul while restoring. What should I budget for this work?

4. I have researched the removal of the body but I have limited labour as friends and family all live some distance away. Is it possible to lift it off using mechanical means?

5. Finally, what would a full good quality paint job cost and can this be done off the chassis?

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Mal

[johnw]

Hi Mal,

 

When I restored my TR6 I made a wheeled stand that the body shell sat on above the chassis. This allowed everything to stay in the garage

when not being worked on but allowed the shell to be wheeled out of the way when needed.

If you take the screen frame off the body shell is not that high.

To remove the body I used a block and tackle. Brace the shell well before you remove it.

 

Good luck.

 

John

[Rob Salisbury]

Hi Mal, I'm in the middle of doing this very job in similar circumstances, so these are my observations,

1. If you've got the height in your garage, build a stout wooden rack/platform approx 3' high, 5'6" wide and 6'6" long, the body sits on this and you can wheel the chassis (plus engine gearbox diff etc) in and out as you need to.

2. Panel gaps!!, think 3D jigsaw puzzle!!, ..... every time you move one bit another falls out of line, I'm going to start with the bonnet and get it lined up with the scuttle, then the front wings, followed by the doors and the the gap between the windows and the front screen, after that it's a case of getting all the swage lines correct and, if you've gone that far, the outer sills to door bottom gap, then on to the rear wings. ...... any real gap discrepancies can only be successfully corrected by lead loading (see Stuart's brilliant lead loading demo) not really much in the way of reference material other than other peoples cars, but each car is an individual, just work with what you've got.

3. This is the best opportunity you have to do extra work on the engine/gearbox/overdrive and drivechain, but the budget will be large, you can do all these at a later date, and if it 'aint broke.........

4. Me, 2 hefty beams approx. 8' apart in the roof of the garage, 2 engine hoists lifting from the front bonnet hinge mounting points, and the rear seatbelt mounting points, once the body was off the chassis, wheel the chassis out of the way move the wooden platform underneath the body and lower, job done.

5. Paint itself is expensive these days, you'll have to make a choice between cellulose or more modern paints, yes you can have the body painted off the chassis but I think it would be better to have it done on the chassis once all the gaps have been corrected, it will be a tough job the get it to go back in exactly the same place and working round a brand new quality paint job will be nerve racking in the extreme. .... I would think there would not be much change from 5K unless you can get mates rates.

Best of luck,

Rob

[ed_h]

+1 on the stand for the body. I removed and replaced the body alone with an engine hoist. Some pics here:

 

http://bullfire.net/TR6/TR6%20TOC.html

 

See page 27.

 

Ed

Edited August 29, 2018 by ed_h

[rcreweread]

Mal

 

Have sent you a PM (personal Message)

 

Cheers

Rich

[foster461]

I'm amazed at some of the guys here that do a full resto in a single garage barely bigger than the car. I have a two car garage but was only able to use half of it for my TR3 project and like many others I build a dolly that could span the rolling frame and allow me to get everything in the garage when needed but push the dolly outside when I needed to work on the engine. A few times I need the entire garage but only for short periods (eg when I painted the chassis).

 

I did all of the body restoration with the tub still bolted to the frame and once that was complete I lifted the (braced) tub onto the dolly while I worked on the chassis and engine etc.

 

If the door gaps are wonky due to poor tub shimming that is one thing. If it is due to say new B posts not getting installed correctly that is another. I would probably try and get to the bottom of that first.

 

Very satisfying project.

 

Stan

[PodOne]

Hi Mal

 

In the same boat with mine. Unpicking poor repairs and rust. It just takes lots and lots of time and patience. It might be you will have to undertake some major surgery to get the gaps right if previously there was poor attention paid to getting things right. This is how I did mine;

 

Made a rotisserie and bolted the chassi/tub to it using the bumper irons (everything else stripped off) to give me access to everthing and the chassi was in effect the jig and the shims in place. The tub was well braced across the door gaps etc.

 

I build and adjusted everything around the doors just remember to keep the screen frame attached with the glass wound up so that the door glass meets the seals. As said each car is different been almost hand built when new. I found myself having to cut and shut panels/sills/rear deck to get the gaps something like before dropping the chassi. Plus new panels are I've found generally a poor fit/thinner and need work. Have lots of clamps and make up some 3-4mm spacers which you can run down the shut lines and I used the swage line as the start point.

 

The tub is now on a dolly to allow welding to the front and back before it goes off for dipping and the chassi is been repaired in all the usual areas and reinforced.

 

I suspect there will be some further tweaking once the two are back together even with the same shims in place. I plan to paint the underside and inside refit the chassi, mask it and get the final paint done professionally.

 

Its a 3D puzzel which will drive you mad! Walk away have a tea throw a sheet over it and come back a few days later and try again! Enjoy.

 

Andy

 

PS Eds site is brilliant for pointers

[Tim D.]

Have documented my body off chassis replacement here.

http://72tr6.blogspot.com

Amongst other things.

Tim

[elclem1]

I find the best place to start for the gaps is back to front checking all diagonals first if they are out it’s not square and you will never get proper gaps. Also it’s the chassis that dictates the tub so do the chassis first once it’s solid drop it on stands and build from there. The pleasure is massive when to goes to plan, but there many be trouble ahead, so face the music and dance! Enjoy!

[Madmal]

Many thanks for the reply's, there's some great ideas about storing the shell which should work for me as well.

 

Just got to bite the bullet and make a start.....watch this space!

 

Mal

[SeanF]

Hi Mal,

 

I'm nearing the end of a body off restoration on my '74 and have a few thoughts to share which may be useful.

 

Regarding lifting the body off, I used a cheap block and tackle set up (silverline) which I bought from ebay and is attached to the 6x2's in my ceiling structure. I used it to both remove the tub and to replace it on the completed chassis after bodywork and a few times in between. The body tub is not very heavy (can be lifted by 2 people) and as long as the span of the rafters is not too long this should be fine. I have a single garage (bigger than some, but still single) and I couldn't get an engine stand into position perpendicular to the tub to lift it using that method. Don't forget to brace the door openings before removal

 

Panel gaps. All starts with a good straight and level chassis. Having stripped the chassis down and repaired where necessary, use this as a jig on which to restore the body tub. Re-build the tub around the doors and be prepared to fit and remove panels hundreds of times during the process.

 

Engine. Definitely the time to sort out and refurb. Depending on what needs to be done, I would budget on £1.5k between machine shop work and new parts to be purchased. If you have overdrive and opt for refurb of the GB and OD, the cost of that will be another £1.5k ish.

 

Paint. I opted to paint it myself in the garage. Definitely a big decision and possibly not one I would make lightly again, but I did enjoy every minute of it and you feel a great sense of satisfaction when its done.

 

Storage of the tub. Do you have plenty of outside space? I built a "box" outside to store the tub in. Used plywood sheets on an 2x4 frame and shed felt on the roof. Made a wheeled dolly for the frame and wheeled it in and out as required. This worked very well for me and I think cost about £180. It was not my idea but borrowed from a fellow forumite. I opted to do the bodywork right down to final paint first, and only stripped and restored the engine and re-built the chassis after this was finished so only needed to store the tub in the box for about 6 months.

 

Anyway, a few further thoughts to add to the mix.

 

Best of luck with the restoration.

 

Sean

[Litespud]

I did a frame-off essentially unassisted. After removing the trunk, hood, doors seats and battery, bracing the door openings, and disconnecting everything, I set up two "gantries" in the garage with 2x6s and scaffolding, and used two 3/4 ton (overkill) chain hoists to lift the tub up off the chassis, then rolled the chassis out. Lowered the tub down onto a basic stand of 2x4s on trestles. My main motivation was to replace a severely rotted and poorly repaired frame.. So, once I lifted the tub, I stripped the frame, and rehabbed everything as I rebuilt it on the new frame. I did all the work in an old stone double garage with a broken up concrete floor and no heat/insulation, and in the middle of a Pittsburgh winter, I got ~20 mins before the metal I was working on froze my fingers. I didn't do any paintwork, as the finish was in decent driver shape, but I repaired some holes in the floor with a POR-15 fiberglass kit, and I patched a hole down in the drivers side footwell. I also didn't open up the motor, as I had good oil pressure, consistent compression across all 6, and the crank float was within spec. Everything else was done, though. Whole job took ~18 months, and I don't want to think about what it cost in the end, but it was quite the experience

[Tim D.]

Just remembered.. I actually placed the body on my new chassis using an engine crane. Worked fine. The body sans doors, bootlid and bonnet is not that heavey..

Cheers

Tim

[Nigel A]

Also used an engine crane

 

Nigel

 

[PodOne]

+1 for the engine crane.

 

I found the center of gravity is much further back than I expected ie not across the floor pan more towards the rear seat belt/arch mounts.

 

Can be done on your own with a bit of fiddling about.

[Nigel A]

Also did it on my own.

 

The garage is under the house, so quite a steep slope and used the taxi to tow the rolling chassis out and then slowly roll it back in under the body.

 

I do remember I had great fun as the body kept swinging and it was quite a windy day.

 

Nigel