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Electronic Ignition.


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Hi,

I have a TR6 fitted with a Pertronix electronic ignition module that fits under the distributor cap and a Flamethrower coil.

Yesterday it let me down and the car just stopped and would not re start.

Once I had established that the ignition module was the problem I replaced it with a cheap ebay unit.

The car started fine and ran well for about 25 mile when the same thing happened again.

This time I re fitted the old points system and this got me home.

My question is, was I unlucky to have both modules fail or could I have an underlying electrical fault that is damaging the modules.

I don't want to fit another unit and have the same thing happen again.

Reading one of the ads on ebay it says not suitable for use with copper ignition leads which is what I have.

 

Any ideas please

John Whitehead

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i have aways stopped short of switching to the Flamethrower coil..... i have had great results with both Pertronix (Aldon) Igniter and Powerspark using std. coils on Heralds, Stags and TR.

Pertronix via the retrorockets website used to be a great option, but the poor $/£ rate lay that rest a few years ago now.

 

....... Andy

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It does sound ‘unlucky’ for two units to fail.

 

So do check the resistance of thw coil, and perhaps also the alternator while you are at it ( for high output voltage)

 

Steve

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FWIW I have fitted a complete system from Accuspark it was a cheap solution as I needed to get the car running in a hurry. It has only let me down once since I fitted it and that was my own fault with purely crimped ignition lead to coil, the crimp slipped off the wire and cut the ignition supply feed. Five minutes and a pair of pliars and back on the road again and made a more secure fix when I got home. The car runs well with perfect plug colour and ultra reliable starting first time every time.

Accuspark supplied a Matching distributor, pre fitted internal module, Accuspark triple point spark plugs, coil. no signs of over heating but the rating of the coil needs to be spot on as I was advised. If I have to I carry a set of points and these can be changed roadside. I made my own plug leads with racing spec cable and NGK stamped screw on caps. not sure what the internal wire is but not copper or carbon.

Rgds

Rod

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I also have Accuspark, although fitted to my original (25D) distributor.

I carry a spare module, as would be much quicker (& easier) to change than to revert to points.

Not had to use it yet !

 

Bob.

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The Pertronix/Aldon Ignitor ignition modules are generally very reliable, I've used one on my GT6 for almost 20 years without trouble. As Bob (Lebro) implies, some of the cheaper alternatives don't have such a good reputation for reliability. That said, I've had an Accuspark fitted to my Scimitar GTE for 4 years/15,000 miles and it's been fine.

 

Ignition coils that are beginning to fail will often cause a misfire or cut out after some miles, once they get hot. It's possible that the new cheap ignition only appeared to fail once the coil got hot and started misbehaving. Have you tried putting the original Pertronix ignition back? Does it work when the engine and coil are cold? That would point towards the coil.

 

One final point to consider... do you have the correct impedance coil fitted? It should be 1.5 ohm with a ballasted ignition or 3 ohm for non-ballasted battery voltage ignition. Fitting the wrong impedance Flamethrower will work for a while, but the coil could breakdown or overheat eventually if the 1.5 ohm coil is fitted to a non-ballasted ignition circuit.

 

 

Nigel

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As Bob (Lebro) implies, some of the cheaper alternatives don't have such a good reputation for reliability.

 

Nigel

Hang on Nigel - I am quite happy with the reliability of the Accuspark module, but just as I carry a spare fan belt (& a few other items) a spare module at circa £30 would be much easier to swap than points & capacitor. I would expect never to have to use it..

 

Bob.

 

P.S. Wish I still had my SE5

Edited by Lebro
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Hang on Nigel - I am quite happy with the reliability of the Accuspark module, but just as I carry a spare fan belt (& a few other items) a spare module at circa £30 would be much easier to swap than points & capacitor. I would expect never to have to use it..

 

Bob.

 

P.S. Wish I still had my SE5

Sorry Bob, I must have drawn the wrong conclusion from your post about carrying a spare Accuspark.

 

The fact remains that some cheap Hall effect electronic ignitions are not as reliable as Pertronix/Aldon.

 

Nigel

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Preferred the Sopwith Camel myself Bob.... (sorry)

 

On-topic, I had a in-dizzy Pertronix unit that failed very soon after installation. It was a temperature related fault as it would work OK until the engine warmed up. I reverted to points as in any case there was no discernable difference with the Pertronix , and returned the unit for a refund.

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I had a recent coil failure - it was a Flamethrower. Sometimes coils fail then 10 min later, when you have changed something else, they start to work again once they are cooler, convincing you that you had found the problem. If I was you I would reinstall the original Pertronix unit to see it it still works.

 

In testing these components, with intermittent faults, it is sometimes best to do a A-B-A-B test over time to prove what precise component is actually causing the problem. Unlikely to be two at the same time.

 

Mick

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Preferred the Sopwith Camel myself Bob.... (sorry)

 

On-topic, I had a in-dizzy Pertronix unit that failed very soon after installation. It was a temperature related fault as it would work OK until the engine warmed up. I reverted to points as in any case there was no discernable difference with the Pertronix , and returned the unit for a refund.

Why would there be "a discernable difference" between a triggering electronic unit and correctly set up points. What you get with an electronic trigger is a fit, adjust and forget system Which won't need readjusting every 6 months and replacing every 3-5 years.

With a points system you get it spot on after weeks of fiddling with good power, no flat spots and no pinking and a few months later the pinkings back just when you leave for a 2 week holiday! Ive had the same magnetronic (in distributor) module and Lucas gold Sports coil for over 15 years and the only time it's been reset was when the engine was rebuilt 6 years ago.

The only non standard bit is the A/R springs and the coil is mounted on the wing to keep it cooler.

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Why would there be "a discernable difference" between a triggering electronic unit and correctly set up points. What you get with an electronic trigger is a fit, adjust and forget system Which won't need readjusting every 6 months and replacing every 3-5 years.

With a points system you get it spot on after weeks of fiddling with good power, no flat spots and no pinking and a few months later the pinkings back just when you leave for a 2 week holiday! Ive had the same magnetronic (in distributor) module and Lucas gold Sports coil for over 15 years and the only time it's been reset was when the engine was rebuilt 6 years ago.

The only non standard bit is the A/R springs and the coil is mounted on the wing to keep it cooler.

Dont know where youve been getting your points from but all the dizzys we fit have been built by Martin (Distributor doc) and they only need a quick file up and reset on normal service intervals. They dont suddenly give up either!

Stuart.

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So far I have used Petronix and their coil on 2 cars and trouble free.

 

I know they promote their coil to compliment the product But I suspect the difference is minimal between theirs and a Standard Lucas.

 

Does anyone know the answer?

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"What you get with an electronic trigger is a fit, adjust and forget system Which won't need readjusting every 6 months and replacing every 3-5 years."

 

Points will keep working even when quite a bit out of adjustment and there really isn't much to cause sudden drastic failure, whereas the only time I tried electronics ignition it let me down completely at a very awkward place and time (traffic lights in the rush hour). Certainly not fit-and-forget in my experience though I understand you and others have been luckier Chris.

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But, Rob, as the points wear, the performance is compromised and petrol consumption suffers. And there comes a point (sorry!) when the motor will be seriously lacking power. Members of the NLG discovered this on their return from a long trip on the Continent and the big Triumph saloon had to be pushed onto the ferry. Once ashore in England, someone got out the feeler gauges and re-set the points!

I have have been using Newtronic/Piranha ignition with copper leads since 1993 - never a problem!

Ian Cornish

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Agreed Ian but in my experience points even if very badly adjusted keep going irrespective - at least long enough to get you somewhere out of the way where you can fix things. The electronic ones either work or (as I experienced) suddenly don't work at all. That could be very nasty in the wrong circumstances.

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Hi, thank you to everyone who has taken the time to consider my problem.

 

Today I have re fitted both electronic units with the flamethrower coil and a spare coil that I have.

Car will not start, but runs fine when the points system is re fitted.

The flamethrower coil is marked 3 ohm which is the correct one for my car, but it actually measures 2.7 ohm on my meter.

The spare lucas coil I have measures 4.0 ohm.

If the coil is breaking down when hot could this damage the electronic unit?

 

Many thanks for everyone's help.

 

John

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Hi John

 

If the car won’t start then the coil isn’t getting hot, do you mean that the electronic ignitions are damaged already?

 

3-5 ohms is the standard range for points ignition, 2.7 isnt too far away.

What you dont want is circa 1 ohm as used with cdi

 

The electronic ignitions need a positive feed as well as the earth, whereas the points just earth the negative of the coil periodically

Is the positive feed to the electeonic ignitions working ?

 

Sorry you’re having such difficuly, if its any consolation i’m having similar troubles on an old honda motorcycle right now too!

 

Steve

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I can see your point Rob, but its luck of the draw really, quite a few things could cause the engine to stop without warning such as:

Condenser

Points earth lead breaking

Coil

Crimped or soldered terminal snapping

Ignition switch failure

Fuel Pump

None of the above would be good news if overtaking on the motorway!

The longer items continue to function the more confidence we have in them continuing to do so.

It's unfortunate your module failed so soon, but that wouldn't put me off trying one from a different manufacturer.

Chris

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