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Rem18

Enough Talk about Fake Cars Please

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Folks. I have been constantly hearing regards fake cars.

Time to do something simple ie post the suspect cars and let some so called experts help unsuspecting buyers.

It will be very easy to create a database on FaceBook.

yes I know a lot of people dont like FB but do you like the idea of of people buying cars that are 'Ringer's?'

Doesnt that damage our reputations too.

Those new owners might just join the register one day. So there we are to start the ball rolling I have started a FB group for this.

If you have good knowledge please pop over and either give your expertise, post photos of cars or if you need a hand deciding anyway.

Please help other to look after the Marque in this sense too.

 

Tony

 

The 'TR Ringers' FB group.
To combat the despicable habit of selling cars for what they are not Such as Tr250's as Tr5's and Tr7 with a v8 as Tr8's I have started another group. You are free to join if you can give advise or want to check a car? The official wording is
Welcome to this group. It has been formed to address the ever increasing number of Tr's that are being converted and then sold as something they didn't come out of the factory as for instance a Tr250 being sold as a Tr5 or a Tr7 which has had a 3500 v8 conversion.
Whether you want to help stop the phenomenon or need help assessing a car.
Please join the cause.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/234504900530639/?ref=br_rs

Edited by Rem18

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Hi Tony,

As a non facebook person (I hate it with a vengeance) please explain how facebook info will be verified and not open to malicious gossip and rumour which could effect values much worse. I would be much more in favour of a system that outlaws the sale of identities on places like Ebay.

You will not stop Ringers of cars stolen to suit identities held.

I would advocate the freely available deal done with or through the Register for the sale and registration of cars using "smart water" which can be applied all over the vehicle with post code etc and personal id in any form. The system is recognised by Police and insurance Company. Check it out!

Who would post "suspect car" and on what authority? A feeling that is not substantiated cannot in my view be legitimate.

 

Facebook is so public and once a comment is there it is permanent.

I for one would not contribute to this but others may have a different view.

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Rodbr I understand your worries.

Its a closed group only by acceptance, I will do some vetting and would hope the better members would assist.

I do understand your worries, but forgive me what are the options while you are waiting.

The register has problems tackling this over the years.

You can wait for the law but there are members who have written to DVLA and Trading standards and so far nothing.

Its not going to be a witch hunt the car sellers can be give a chance to explain and hopefully there will be members who can spot a ringer or confirm a good buy.

Saying I wont use FB isnt really the answer its actually a very controlled environment and much slagged.

As the admin nothing is permanent in FB

How do you know I here am a real person and not a bot or a fake seller???

How do I know if you dont deal in cars at night over the phone?

How is it less permanent here?
Many people dont know the Register but a lot more know FB. Personally as someone who works in IT, I can state that if you think other systems are better then your probably dreaming.

Your solution? I dont like mobile phones so I dont have one? Ok but you talk to less people.

The idea was to add another string to our bow to help unsuspecting buyers and help the marque.

If you dont agee fair enough, but I hate to tell you its a minority game.

My interest is the interest of the marque and when and if ever the State ever comes up with a solution then the Ringers group will be obsolete.

Whats the problem?

All hands on deck no?

If you have good knowledge come and give a hand, come and see how a group like that can be a plus if its managed.

Best

Tony

Edited by Rem18

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I can see that becoming a whole nest of vipers to be honest. Sorry - I know you mean well but that is something that is only going to go one way.

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Guys it wasnt an invite to a slagging match.

My belief is that anything is down to the quality of the people who give input.

You are free to Judge as you wish.

We are going to try and do our best.

If you feel its easier to give negative comments feel free, no skin of my nose, if it makes you feel better being negative thats your concern.

Just trying to give a hand.

Stay where you are, if you feel more confy, no probs.

Edited by Rem18

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Was involved in many other similar discussions when I was in lotus elan world. Difference in value between a standard lotus Elan and a 26R is way in advance of the difference between a 250 and a 5. Despite much discussion in the end the ONLY solution was caveat emptor. And advice to have a 26R checked against register records. Generally if you tell a seller this is what you are going to do they soon change their story if it is a ringer.

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Affiliated to the fake Ford Mexico Group?

 

Alan

 

Not forgetting the Lotus Cortina

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I can understand the benefits, good job Tony.

I did take some digging to find it though, glad you posted a direct link on the other groups.

...... Andy

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Thanks Andy Getting a bit of flack, but I dont mind.

Its normal when financial interests are involved but fact is fact.

Lot of people also want to make noise but if they were asked to put their hand up then they start to squirm or its easier to try and say why you shouldnt do it. Easier to be negative.

https://www.facebook.com/powerofpositivity/videos/10155575948392371/

Edited by Rem18

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Fakebook.

....uses real names...makes it easy to find real address...and to nick car.

Peter

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I suppose I am a Luddite but have no intention of using Facebook. I already spend significant, but generally not wasted time, on favoured forums. Just heard today that the average Joe in UK checks their I-phone every 12 minutes and spends 24 hours per week online. The only way I would abandon my forums would be if forced to do so either by changing technology or lack of participation.

I just think if I were to venture onto (un)social media I would get even less done in the garage.

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Folks. I have been constantly hearing regards fake cars.

Time to do something simple ie post the suspect cars and let some so called experts help unsuspecting buyers.

It will be very easy to create a database on FaceBook.

yes I know a lot of people dont like FB but do you like the idea of of people buying cars that are 'Ringer's?'

Doesnt that damage our reputations too.

Those new owners might just join the register one day. So there we are to start the ball rolling I have started a FB group for this.

If you have good knowledge please pop over and either give your expertise, post photos of cars or if you need a hand deciding anyway.

Please help other to look after the Marque in this sense too.

 

Tony

 

The 'TR Ringers' FB group.

To combat the despicable habit of selling cars for what they are not Such as Tr250's as Tr5's and Tr7 with a v8 as Tr8's I have started another group. You are free to join if you can give advise or want to check a car? The official wording is

Welcome to this group. It has been formed to address the ever increasing number of Tr's that are being converted and then sold as something they didn't come out of the factory as for instance a Tr250 being sold as a Tr5 or a Tr7 which has had a 3500 v8 conversion.

Whether you want to help stop the phenomenon or need help assessing a car.

Please join the cause.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/234504900530639/?ref=br_rs

As Alec Pringle would probably have commented " Caveat Emptor". If the only concern in owning a "classic" vehicle is the investment value then so be it , I bought my car to drive and enjoy, but I understand that some individuals only want to make money from the cars which is why most "classics " (not only TRs) are seriously over valued (rated!)

If you are only wanting a genuine TR5 or whatever then you should research a vehicle thoroughly, the information is out there and available. Using "social media" will only end in one way.

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Cew. I agree. Trust but Verify.

 

But really this about FB being the Devil I dont think you guys seem to have much of an idea.

I work in It, my eldest son although has a masters in Law works in Cyber security.

Guys All Internet has a risk. Especially if you dont know how to use it.

If you are worried throw away your smartphone and your internet.

Most of the comments I see is that FB is the devils instrument before that it was TV and before the the Telephone ;)

Excuse me no offence but FakeBook isnt only that and such off the cuff comments are just ignorance through lack of knowledge.

How do you know who I am here? What makes you so sure I am not looking at stealing your car now, how do you know I wont turn up a a meet and size up your car or follow you home?

Common guys lets not blame the new fangled contraptions. Thats what they said about the petrol engine hahahhaha.

 

Now

I agree too much money too.

 

Also though we are a fading race, in 10 years time Tr's will only be good for the London to Brighton.

I have three sons bought up on Tr's, but to them they are quaint, even my F3 road car to them is just curious.

 

Tuesday Tadeo Uchida Michelotti's chief assistant designer from 1965 was at my house for lunch (he styled my Michelotti Pura).

He turned up in al Alfa 4c £50k car with a 0-60 in 3.4s... Those are the cars my kids will want to collect.

 

What FB is good for is exposure of certain cars that we can debate and advise. Its not intended to substitute the Register but lets face it the Register has advertisers and all sorts of other problems.

My thoughts go out more to the newbies that dont know anything, but they use FB, what harm if a carefully vetted closed group posts the odd picture to debate? Surely the more info out there the better. Being a closed group of old fuddy duddies is not the only answer.

My thoughts go out to the people who dont know and might need help and not all the people who think they know it all. hahahha

https://www.facebook.com/powerofpositivity/videos/10155575948392371/

In case you refuse to see FB then I will tell you the first line.

Its says Negative People have a Problem for Every Solution.. hahahhaha

Edited by Rem18

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Hi Tony,

Far from a slagging match, people have put forward their viewpoint which is what you asked for, no? No it is not about the Devil in facebook, but more about presenting a reasoned arguement with good references, backed up by facts, statistics and a joined up thinking which is what the scientists, engineers, lawyers, plumbers etc like to have to formed their OWN opinion if an idea is sound or not.

I suggest that perhaps it is not the best move to insult people who do not hold your view. The more you shout foul the more suspicious I become.

You pose questions of your own which are very true but do not explain how that can be avoided. e.g. "who am I"

We all know it goes on and there is already a network of owners that are more than happy to go look at a car, present history but on a more private basis. The merest hint of a car that might not be cosher gets alerted , discussed already.

Just because people will not use Facetime etc does not give you the right to slag them off.

You refer to "we" so who are "we".?

Tell me or "us" who you actually are, pursuade "us" how you will police this proposal give details. Present a fully documented well researched proposal for discussion and I am certain that you wont get "slagged off" as you so eruditely put it but do not be surprised if people hold a different viewpoint to you.

You suggest that people who do not choose to use Facetime ( amalgamation) or have a mobile phone are somehow lesser people which is insulting at best. Virtually every person I know in the TR community has been around a few years, held down jobs and are enthusiastic about the cars not their inflated values. Incidently this being a question I get asked often at car shows, I usually suggest £1m but what will you offer?

 

Please do not think that by attempting to fall on the moral high ground and suggest that you are being slagged off you will bring people round. It wont IMHO.

If you suggested this with the thought that people would accept your proposal without question you are being a bit naive. and the Ha ha ha 's don't really give a good feeling in my view.

If FB is so safe show me ,us, them by statistics, documented history demonstrate how "you" will control it. Outline how you see it working then you might get more positive feedback.

 

Your reference to waiting for the state to do something is the measure of last resort in my view, good luck trying persuade people.

 

Given your statements above that we are ignorant, and you suggest we should throw phones and internet to the four winds because we are a closed group of fuddy duddies perhaps you might want to tone your comments down and ratchet things back a bit. If you and yours are the experts and saviours of us all due to your superior knowledge perhaps you would be better served by detailing how you think it would work, "teach us oh knowledgeable one, we are not worthy."

 

Best regards

and have a nice day.

Rod

Edited by Rodbr

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Tony,

 

Elsewhere on this site you have just said:

 

“I started another thread here and already all the old boys are saying FB is the devil.”

 

Actually, they are not saying that, they are saying that they don’t use it.

 

You then say:

 

“I hate that ignorance.”

 

To classify them as being “Ignorant” is just arrogant and rude on your part.

 

You also say:

 

“We need to be able to help the newcomers many of which don’t know the Register”

 

So why will it be easier to know about your facebook page then?

 

Facebook is just another part of the internet. If a potential TR5 customer cannot find the register site, then how will it be easier to find your facebook site?

 

For the record I’ve been part of discussion groups using computers before the internet was invented. (There were things called “Dial-up” bulletin boards.) I’m personally not averse to change but my view is that facebook is just another website (albe-it a big one). It is not a religion, even though some people seem to think it is.

 

Charlie.

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Ahh here we go The Posse is up.

I rebuff entirely these comments.

I suggest you read all the comments in both the threads and if you like I can send you a couple of personal messages I received too.

When I said Ignorance I was referring to knowledge on the matter of FB. My statement regards the Devil is aimed at statements like FB will be a Viper, FB will get your car stolen,. Then if people are so well informed but they call FB faceTime well that says a lot doesnt it about just how well clued people are.

Certainly FB is not the answer on its own but nor has the register been able on its own to deal with this over the years FB is just another medium thats all, one that greener car buyers might find easier to use.

I totally rebuff that I insulted anyone If I did please name the names of whom I have insulted so they can bring charges.

You see this is the problem.

Here some people would rather spend time debating that FB is no good instead of addressing the problem regards fake cars.

I addressed the point in the original post but still people preferred slagging FB rather than addressing the issue.

Lets be honest as although I might be one of the younger members here I still have a lot of TR years and my dad bought his new Tr6 in 1970 when I was a nipper.

Discussions regards FB and that I should say whom the 'we' are neither here nor there.

There is a FB group that will publish cars for discussion, if people want to try and help fine, if the prefer to say that FB (or Facetime for those that dont know the difference) is a Viper and counter productive fine. Other comments such as FB means people see who you are?? Well here people are using any name they car surely thats iffy too then?

Look I just started it to add a different dimension to the problem we are addressing.

The FB group is still going to be there like it or not.

Fact is in 5-10 years nigh everyone here will have moved on to greener pastures and my personal view is that if we want our Tr's to live on we need to get some young blood in and use new fangled methods.

So please either address the issue of fake Tr's or move on This is not a discussion about whether you like 'facetIme' or not.

The group is closed and people dont want to be seen so as not to be singled out and I respect their wishes, because of the very fact here that some people see this forum as a personal item where people with different opinions are wrong.

I didnt insult anyone I just made generic statements and got flack for it.

My interest is TR's and if that doesnt fit with your way of thinking about cars well I am sorry please move on.

Dare say this post will get canceled or I will get a sanction letter.

I would like to think that might be the cost of daring to try and do something.

Doesnt matter as here you can use any name you like I can be back again next day.

Now lets please get back to the point and try to offer assistance to naive buyers in the interests of our cars.

 

Anyone who wishes to try and reduce the phenomenon is welcome to comment or offer suggestions if not kindly refrain from commenting.

Thanks

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REM 18, are you a member of the TR Register, are you a UK resident? It doesnt look as though you are!

 

R.E.M. 18 it was I Sue that asked those questions, cant you see that my questions are no worse than you asking someone for the Commision number of their TR5 on Facebook........?

 

Sue

Edited by RogerH

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Roger

I hope you are not getting on the divergence bandwagon too?

I see no need for such questions what does it have to do with my life long love of TR's?

I really think we should stick to trying to identify proper Tr's on this thread the rest regards my nationality, whether I think Facebook is a valid medium etc is not really relevant is it?

I dont need to know if you have hair or if you like cheese do I Roger hahahahha?

Tony

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I wasn't saying Facebook is a bad idea - I use it all the time. Most of the clubs I belong to maintain a Facebook page as a means of communicating. If you're worried about tracking, better stop using anything owned by Google! Facebook is no better or worse.

 

I think the idea is bad full stop. Imagine I am selling my classic car and there is a similar car to mine also for sale - any buyer might buy one or the other. It's sneaky perhaps, but what if I were to post the other car up on your Facebook page and list the other cars faults, perhaps alluding to the fact that all might not be as it seems? Maybe that might swing a buyer over to my car at the expense of the other owner. How would you feel if your own car was being vilified on social media - you might think it's fair criticism but I'll bet my bottom dollar the other owner won't?

 

You only have to read some of the posts on here about cars sold at premium prices at dealers. Everyone chimes in with a list of everything wrong with the car, however minor. You're opening a can of worms.

 

Nothing to do with Facebook. It's just a platform - as long as you understand you are their product it works for all sides.

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Although we are also talking about Fb again thank you Rhino for helping me to make it clear that all this stuff is at risk.

Agree one 100% and not only Google I can track you anywhere. Every looked at anything on Google? Notice the unsolicited adds for days after?

Now FB

Trying to do our best.

The group is a closed group you cant post photos willy nilly. At the moment only vetted or invited people are in, although we may get infiltrators after we will do our best.

It certainly wont be a sales site its purely to post any cars that dont 'ring true' for others to debate, its not a public site.

At most you apply to join as you are looking at a car and want some help regards authenticity, we can help or maybe ask at the Register too for help.

That said its an open market but our FB site is just to look at some cars that 'ring bells'

I certainly wont allow slagging off. Having enough of that today already. ;)

Tony

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Unsolicited ads after Google ? I use it a lot and never get any ads at all. None.

Nor from other sites - adblocker kills them.

 

The problem that Facebook increasingly faces is its association with fake news.

Old cynics like me ask, if news is faked, what else on there is also fakery ??

 

Peter

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Roger

I hope you are not getting on the divergence bandwagon too?

I see no need for such questions what does it have to do with my life long love of TR's?

I really think we should stick to trying to identify proper Tr's on this thread the rest regards my nationality, whether I think Facebook is a valid medium etc is not really relevant is it?

I dont need to know if you have hair or if you like cheese do I Roger hahahahha?

Tony

R.E.M. 18, please see my edited post number 19 on this thread.

 

Sue

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Sue or Roger????

Rather disappointed if you are trying to play games.

Although I check all applicants and saw some of your connections I thought we would be above such games??

I think we already had this discussion elsewhere.

I asked if the car was a CP, you then took the matter out of hand by implying that I was fishing for peoples full numbers?

Please lets not try to play some sort of little trap game and certainly dont publish stuff from one place to another otherwise you will appear to be trying to put people against each other.

Regards numbers these can be gotten from DVLA as they are public records.

My name,nationality, religion and other stuff is Privacy its different.

So please lets not play games if you feel you must kindly remove yourself from the Fb group.

You see to me this is part of the Register at the moment.

There seems to be some underlying trend and some kind of feeling that only certain people can comment, but until today TR5 owners could not know how many fake cars where out there, now thanks to a few this has changed and it will become public.

Now surely thats what we should be addressing.

Tr's and not FB or games....?

What did you hope to achieve? Bit suspect in my book.

I wonder if instead of helping the Register this little game has actually damaged its reputation especially in the members eyes in my little group. To see a Registry person sign up to just try and set childish traps?

Absolutely astounded you should feel they need to play games?

Whats the benefit?

Also shows how easy it is here for people to use fake identities or use someone elses????

Edited by Rem18

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