Rem18 Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 So always hearing about electric fans and how they save 100hp blah blah. Well I was looking for an electric water pump for my Turbo powered F3 car as when she stops in hot weather after a burn the fans start going. But of course the water isnt circulating so I thought why not have an electric water pump to circulate the water one engine is off but fans are still going. Well after reading up about Hp saved and stuff I was wondering, has anyone ever fitted an electric water pump in their TR ? Why not? many want electric fans and an electric pump is the same principle, Hp saved and faster warm up times etc. Personally I dont even use an electric fan in my 5 or 6 but it might be handy to use as a supplementary cooler for someone or even as an emergency carry pump. Anyone ever used one and if not why not if your so convinced regards an electric fan? Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 I do like the idea Tony, and it would allow removal of the standard pump for which replacements seem to be low quality. If there was an engineered bolt on solution it might be popular? But its hardly necessary :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted July 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) Well Steve for £30 there is a model for Mercedes that you can fit just about anywhere, it would work off the fan relay and you just plumb it in to a hose where it can even be hidden so as not to detract from the period look like an electric fan does. I want mine for my turbo car so it circulates the water after switch off if fans are still blowing as it will avoid any hot spots in engine. In theory it will save 3.5hp as well. You could fit a manual overide switch and have a warning light to tell you when its all running if you like too.. Or It could also be a supplementary pump for people worried about overheating in traffic... See an example here. https://www.autoparti.it/bosch/1155414?grmk=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIta-7gbe13AIVQrcbCh1RNAgBEAYYASABEgLcqPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds Edited July 23, 2018 by Rem18 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 They are used on the Stags but I've not seen them used on the TRs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) Just fitted the Davies Craig to my Stag and it works really well. The pump needs a controller which starts the pump on a reduced intermittent cycle until the engine gets to temperature then pumps full time. The controller also works the electric radiator fan if the water gets over the pre-set temperature. Another advantage is that when you switch the engine off the pump and electric fan continue to run until the water temperature is 10' cooler than the pre-set temperature you set (same value as thermostat temperature). This prevents the thermal surge when you switch off and ensure the engine does not boil. It is the controller functions that makes the pump successful I am not sure a pump alone would be as good.. Alan Edited July 23, 2018 by barkerwilliams Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted July 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 Well there you go Barkerwilliams. I want mine for my turbo car so water circulates while fans are still running after switch off or they never stop, also good for hot spots. Got a link to the system or at least some more info regards price and specs? Tony Just fitted the Craig Davis to my Stag and it works really well. The pump needs a controller which starts the pump on a reduced intermittent cycle until the engine gets to temperature then pumps full time. The controller also works the electric radiator fan if the water gets over the pre-set temperature. Another advantage is that when you switch the engine off the pump and electric fan continue to run until the water temperature is 10' cooler than the pre-set temperature you set (same value as thermostat temperature). This prevents the thermal surge when you switch off and ensure the engine does not boil. It is the controller functions that makes the pump successful I am note sure a pump alone would be as good.. Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 I am tempted, especially if there’s the option of an extra warning light!, but am vowed to leave engine alone whilst it’s working so well..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 I fitted a Honda radiator to my race Vitesse, 2L and Lucas Pi, but the rad is a tad smaller than the original, and overheating happened under stress. I Fitted a Davies-Craig pump, the smallest and it has overcome the problem. D-C say that the mechanical pump should be "disabled", but removing it would need a fabricated connection at the front of the block, and would make adjusting the fan belt (electric fan too, so 'alternator belt'?) very tricky. So, I ground off the vanes of the pumps's impeller, and now it's just an idler for the alt.belt. D-C do a booster pump too, smaller, that could be added discreetly if you wnat that. See: https://daviescraig.com.au/product-search?category_id=24&criteria= D-C are friendly people, who respond to queries rapidly, if you allow for time zones as they are in Oz! John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 I fitted a Honda radiator to my race Vitesse, 2L and Lucas Pi, but the rad is a tad smaller than the original, and overheating happened under stress. I Fitted a Davies-Craig pump, the smallest and it has overcome the problem. D-C say that the mechanical pump should be "disabled", but removing it would need a fabricated connection at the front of the block, and would make adjusting the fan belt (electric fan too, so 'alternator belt'?) very tricky. So, I ground off the vanes of the pumps's impeller, and now it's just an idler for the alt.belt. D-C do a booster pump too, smaller, that could be added discreetly if you wnat that. See: https://daviescraig.com.au/product-search?category_id=24&criteria= D-C are friendly people, who respond to queries rapidly, if you allow for time zones as they are in Oz! John Ooh, 13hp extra, now i am tempted :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 Slight cock-up its Davies Craig not Craig Davies, I blame senility. Car Builder Solutions is a good place to start or Merlin Motor Sport, lots of outlets or their Australian site. "https://daviescraig.com.au/" It has a display showing the coolant temperature and state of the fans, an audible alarm, and an external warning light. But my TR6 works well as original, Stag is a very different kettle of fish though. Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted July 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) John is that the 9002? as you can see from the link I pasted when I started this its the same as the £30 pump available on the web. I want mine for just circulating a bit of water while fans are roaring (I have 3) after shut down as with water not circulating they never get the cooler water back to the thermostat so take ages to shut down. Did they tell you that these cant be used if you leave original pump in? Find that funny as these other ones same as theirs are sold as circulating pumps for cars in low temperature areas. T Link is ttps://www.autoparti.it/bosch/1155414?grmk=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIta-7gbe13AIVQrcbCh1RNAgBEAYYASABEgLcqPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds I fitted a Honda radiator to my race Vitesse, 2L and Lucas Pi, but the rad is a tad smaller than the original, and overheating happened under stress. I Fitted a Davies-Craig pump, the smallest and it has overcome the problem. D-C say that the mechanical pump should be "disabled", but removing it would need a fabricated connection at the front of the block, and would make adjusting the fan belt (electric fan too, so 'alternator belt'?) very tricky. So, I ground off the vanes of the pumps's impeller, and now it's just an idler for the alt.belt. D-C do a booster pump too, smaller, that could be added discreetly if you wnat that. See: https://daviescraig.com.au/product-search?category_id=24&criteria= D-C are friendly people, who respond to queries rapidly, if you allow for time zones as they are in Oz! John Edited July 23, 2018 by Rem18 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted July 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 Must say for worried people a display and a warnings is a nice idea.... Slight cock-up its Davies Craig not Craig Davies, I blame senility. Car Builder Solutions is a good place to start or Merlin Motor Sport, lots of outlets or their Australian site. "https://daviescraig.com.au/" It has a display showing the coolant temperature and state of the fans, an audible alarm, and an external warning light. But my TR6 works well as original, Stag is a very different kettle of fish though. Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Drewmotty Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 There is at least one TR5 in the Devon Group with an electric water pump. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Down Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 I fitted a Davies Craig Booster pump in my 1936 Morgan with a Coventry Climax lump. This engine with syphon cooling only ( no water pump or fan) is known for overheating with current petrol and modern road conditions. Previously the temperature used to settle at around 90-95 so it did not take much for it to boil. An electric fan did very little and it still boiled. The Booster pump brings the temperature down to 75 so cured the problem. I did not use the controller but simply switch it on when needed. The only problem I have encountered is when re filling the coolant, an air leak does tend to occur on the inlet side of the pump. Easily cured by filling the pump before connecting the output. The Coventry Climax engine is small ( approx.1200cc ) so a larger pump would be necessary for a TR etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 John is that the 9002? as you can see from the link I pasted when I started this its the same as the £30 pump available on the web. I want mine for just circulating a bit of water while fans are roaring (I have 3) after shut down as with water not circulating they never get the cooler water back to the thermostat so take ages to shut down. Did they tell you that these cant be used if you leave original pump in? Find that funny as these other ones same as theirs are sold as circulating pumps for cars in low temperature areas. T Link is ttps://www.autoparti.it/bosch/1155414?grmk=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIta-7gbe13AIVQrcbCh1RNAgBEAYYASABEgLcqPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds REm, I fitted the EWP80, 80L/min 'main' water pump, not a booster. The advice with that was to 'disable' the mechanical pump, but a booster is a booster, and should work with the OE pump, surely! And 13bhp? If I switch on my fuel pumps AND the water pump before starting, there is a definite effect on the fuel pump note, caused I presume by the current draw from the water pump. But all my pumps are independantly switchable, so the fan and water pump goes on after the engine starts. If the water pump draws that much charge, then the alternator has to work hard to deliver it. 13bhp's worth? I dodubt it and I doubt D-C's value, except perhaps at certain engine conditions. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 Talk to Little Jim, hes fitted an electric water pump to his TR4. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 (edited) Hmm...., what about an electric powered oil pump to get oil to the crank- and camshaft before start the engine? And an electric powered generator to get electric power before starting the engine....? Sorry, the last one was a joke. ???? Edited July 24, 2018 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted July 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 Z320 joking or not the idea of an electric oil pump isnt stupid, but although many modern cars have an electric water pump I dont think any have an electric oil pump. Seriously I could see a supplementary oil pump as a good idea for cooling with an oil rad as oil actually cools more than water. Be interesting to see where Little Jim fitted his water pump and if he is also using the original pump in tandem? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted July 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 (edited) John I think you have to take these things with a pinch of salt, but for sure all the arguments I have heard regards an electric fan saving 100bhp blah blah. My point was a little something is saved and as in theory the water pump has a controller it could be low flow when car not too hot and switch to high flow when fans running so the alternator drain would be low when pump is just idling. However as you are wanting the extra bhp for welly'ing the temp will rise back up and 'aw my God'. In my case I just want a supplementary pump to run off fans, when engine is stopped as fans just keep going for ever due to no circulation. With the supplementary pump that comes on only with fans, I would get extra cooling when fans are on and water circulation when engine stopped and fans going, which also means less hot spots like in turbo. John did you leave the original pump working too? Tony Edited July 24, 2018 by Rem18 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
signalredshaker Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 Ah, well. All those pumps sapping all that power- that's a problem I got around by fitting this natty wind generator to my TR4. It needs a little bracing from the heelboard area bit works really well! I cant say I've noticed much power loss either, as the resultant downside is the cars a little slower. J. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 There will be some circulation with the engine off due to thermosyphon. That works on oldies, like the Climax mentioned above, but I imagine the effect is reduced on a modern system without much head. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 John did you leave the original pump working too? Tony Rem, See my post 8 John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Larnder Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 Tony I have a motoring friend here in Spain who has an MCC fitted with triple Weber carbs. He has just bought a Davis Craig that delivers 80 litres per minute and fitted with a manual over-ride. This was recommended to him from the crowd that race MGC´s and operate a rolling road at Brands Hatch, who have their pumps on all the time while racing. It is fitted in the bottom hose I believe. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 I like this electric power driven cars, for all all day I drive a BMW I3 since 7 months, great fun! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roy53 Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 Had this on my TR 250 race car. Removed the pump and fitted a blanking plate in its place ,very easy to make. This then ment that a shorter fan belt could be fitted from crank to alternator thus helping solving the problem of throwing off fan belts when revving above 7000. If you go too the competition section you will see johns post re problems he had at Brands Hatch. I have gone back to standard pump as when a relay failed and the pump stopped it cost me a new engine. Also heard this from MG racers. Did go down the route of fitting both pumps in line which worked fine but then still had the long fan belt problem. Roy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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