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#1 david c

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 07:08 PM

I have three "spare" drive shaft / hub units for my TR4a.

They look to be in good condition, is there any way of testing them, please keep in mind I am no engineer nor do I have any clever kit, just normal hand tools. The UJ's feel good and tight but the rubber caps don't look to wonderful, should I replace them as a matter of course? If so is it a job I could undertake myself or just take them up to the garage and have them do a "proper" job

 

I plan to replace the existing units on my car in an attempt to cure the "take up" clonk. I know it may not be the cure but it can do no harm?

 

Kind regards David

 

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#2 Motorsport Mickey

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 07:36 PM

Sorry David but a brief search (using the search box) on here will show member after member asking why they "have a clicking noise" or a "rear wheel wobbling" or "why has my wheel overtaken my car into a field from where I had to fetch it" and other hair raising tales.

 

RogerH whose in a previous incarnation did Aircraft NDT (non destructive testing) and repair even to the level of Concorde says "these IRS car rear hub units are dying." Not from bad design or manufacturer malfeasance and money grabbing in component design but because they are now 50 years old, and if you asked modern car designers if their products will stand 50 years of use, and unknown to subsequent owners being launched over kerbs when chasing that MG, or used for race series at the weekends, will laugh in your face and say "you cannot be serious". Unless you definitely can pin down the provenance of the drive shafts and hubs to being owned by a nun who had an aversion to driving faster than 30mph I would strongly consider new hubs and driveshafts, or you risk this happening 

 

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or this

 

Attached File  Stag Hub failure 2.jpg   3.6KB   1 downloads

 

Now these are pictures from the Stag owners club forum who share the design of the Innsbruk rear arms and hubs with our IRS cars, so if you remember that they treat their cars with such regard that they think ALL TR owners are hooligans and ruffians it gives you an idea what may be lurking within TR brake drums, fit new ones. 

 

Mick Richards


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#3 david c

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 07:47 PM

Hmm

Point taken, Sister Mary assured me she had the shafts taken off only weeks after buying the car new so she could fit limited slip diffs. for her rallying  :)

 

In truth I know these units have been stored in a barn for over 20 years............but then again so was my car up to 4 years ago.


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#4 aardvark

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 06:30 AM

Sorry David but a brief search (using the search box) on here will show member after member asking why they "have a clicking noise" or a "rear wheel wobbling" or "why has my wheel overtaken my car into a field from where I had to fetch it" and other hair raising tales.
 
RogerH whose in a previous incarnation did Aircraft NDT (non destructive testing) and repair even to the level of Concorde says "these IRS car rear hub units are dying." Not from bad design or manufacturer malfeasance and money grabbing in component design but because they are now 50 years old, and if you asked modern car designers if their products will stand 50 years of use, and unknown to subsequent owners being launched over kerbs when chasing that MG, or used for race series at the weekends, will laugh in your face and say "you cannot be serious". Unless you definitely can pin down the provenance of the drive shafts and hubs to being owned by a nun who had an aversion to driving faster than 30mph I would strongly consider new hubs and driveshafts, or you risk this happening 
 
attachicon.gifStag Hub failure.jpg
 
or this
 
attachicon.gifStag Hub failure 2.jpg
 
Now these are pictures from the Stag owners club forum who share the design of the Innsbruk rear arms and hubs with our IRS cars, so if you remember that they treat their cars with such regard that they think ALL TR owners are hooligans and ruffians it gives you an idea what may be lurking within TR brake drums, fit new ones. 
 
Mick Richards

+1. I replaced my hubs and drive shafts this year. What price is peace of mind?
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#5 RogerH

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 09:01 AM

Hi David,

      firstly the clonk.  As you have found there are many places where the clonk could lurk.

UJ's - 6 off

Drive shaft splies - 2 off

Propshaft spline - 1 off

 

Diff support pins = 4 off

Damper drop arm

Damper attachment - lever arm

Damper attachment - strut. top/bottom

Dampers and struts could produce an internal knocking but not common.

Chassis members

 

Diff input pinion

Diff front support cracking

Diff output pinion keyway - 2 off

 

and more

 

generally UJ's and the splines show as wear. If there is any that you can feel then there is more that the engine can extract - so change them

The diff mounts are easy to feel and see

The diff itself always has some play in it. This could be the problem but leave till last option.

 

The hubs do not generally produce a knocking sound. Bearings grumble and can be easily felt. 

 

As for the hub.  As mentioned by Mickey the hubs are 40/50 years old and their history could be very chequered.

If they have been laid up in a barn for 30 of the 50 years then you could be on a good bet. If there is any doubt then I would have them changed.

They do fail and it is suddenly whilst on the move.

A number of people have changed over to CV shafts but this simply swaps one issue for another.  Good NEW hubs will work safely for many years

 

I also have a 'take-up clonk' and am doing all the same things as yourself.  I'm beginning to think it may be the newly serviced diff :o

 

Roger


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#6 PYU940F

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 10:30 AM

I had a clonk on take up that mystified me for a while. I suspected the drive shaft splines but putting the rear of the car on axle stands there was no movement in the splines. Changed all the U/J's but the clonk still there. I was about to have the diff overhauled when I decided to replace the drive shafts anyway. New shafts = no clonk. I think when the car was on stands the wheels dropped and the spline mating surfaces moved to a relatively unworn area, hence no symptoms. That really was a curved ball scenario for me.

 

Simon


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#7 david c

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 08:14 PM

Thank you all for the advise, having read some of the horror stories on the forum it puts things in a new light.

 

I will work through Rogers list and take it from there.

 

just to clarify this noise / clonk is not present all the time only on the drive take up, and it has only started within the last few dozen miles.

 

I'm really not trying to be difficult ....but I am a little puzzled the sliding splines on my "spare" shafts look to me to be extremely good with no rounded edges and they even have the little for want of the proper word little grooves on the outside face of the splines.

How can I be sure that if I send these back / exchange them I will get back better units or just different units with a nice coat of black paint?

I do like the Idea of the new / reconditioned hub units from the TR Shop though, from what I have read replacing the inner and outer bearings is a specialist job, not something even the local would be "properly" able to do.

 

Thanks again David


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#8 RogerH

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 08:38 PM

Hi David,

           if you are going for new drive shafts then contact Proptech Services Kidderminster https://gb.kompass.c...ltd/gb82467406/

They do the best ones.  I believe that Moss also stock these (    

but not 100% certain 

 

As for hubs if you go for refurb's then make sure that they have a NEW stub axle.  Bearings do not matter !!!! it is the shaft.

The Moss hub is good. The Bastuck hub should be good but have not used one .

 

Roger


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Time is a drug - Too much will kill you
Forgive your enemy, but remember the ass-hole's name.
never surrender, never give up and always balance your butterflies

Veni Vidi Flati
TR4A - July 1967 daily driver         2010 RBRR No.22  2014 RBRR No.69
TR4 - March 1962 transforming like the proverbial caterpillar - it's now Royal Blue and now with the chromy bits.
 
 
 
 
 

#9 peejay4A

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 09:05 PM

Do you have wire wheels? A clonk on drive takeup can be cause by a slack spinner on either rear wheel.
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Pete 

#10 david c

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 09:22 PM

Hello Pete

My spinners are not the prettiest so I apply the big hammer, good and tight. ( I'll buy shiny spinners when I have finished mucking about)


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#11 TR NIALL

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 06:50 AM

Check the 4 Bolts that hold on the Front Diff Mounting Plate these do come loose and can give play when taking up Drive.
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#12 david c

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 07:23 PM

Thanks Niall

This is getting to be quite a check list.

 

David


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#13 RogerH

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 07:31 PM

....I'm sure there is more.....

 

Roger


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Time is a drug - Too much will kill you
Forgive your enemy, but remember the ass-hole's name.
never surrender, never give up and always balance your butterflies

Veni Vidi Flati
TR4A - July 1967 daily driver         2010 RBRR No.22  2014 RBRR No.69
TR4 - March 1962 transforming like the proverbial caterpillar - it's now Royal Blue and now with the chromy bits.
 
 
 
 
 

#14 TR NIALL

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 07:27 AM

Thanks Niall
This is getting to be quite a check list.
 
David

It’s an easy check Dave and won’t cost you Money.
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