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Waldi

Front oil seal pops out distribution cover.

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Hi,

I installed a new engine front oil seal (2 x3x3/8, rubber with steel reinforced) and to my surprise it popped out of the cover after 10 minutes.

I used Hylomar-blue for belts&braces.

The cover looks ok, the old seal was also glued in and came out not too easy.

Cover shows no obvious damage.

Anyone has had this before?

And a clue why?

Thanks,

Waldi

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Hi Waldi ~

 

Surely there must be too much pressure building up in the crankcase????

 

Tom.

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Waldi, are you talking about the crank oil seal in the timing cover or some other seal ?

 

Stan

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Hi Tom,

Not really, the cover is still on the work bench:)

Thanks,

Waldi

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Hi Waldi,

 

If it's the crankshaft oil seal in the timing cover.

 

It does seem odd, although the other day I installed cam shaft oil seals in a modern car, one of them did exactly as yours, in the end I wiped the outer surface of the oil seal clean and the mating surface on the head and that was enough to grip the seal (using no sealant).

 

You could try putting your oil seal in a plastic bag in the fridge/freezer for a couple of hours as it has a metal body support, then apply your hylomar to the housing, the seal should pop in easily, then put a large socket and weight on it and leave it overnight.

 

Your new seal could be slightly oversize which could give you the problems you are experiencing.

 

Good luck,

 

John

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Hi Waldi.

 

Although I'm a great fan of Hylomar I'm not sure I'd use it in this application because, as Mike says, it's a non-setting product (although I doubt that there is any silicon in it given its origins). Instead, I'd be looking to use an anaerobic bearing locking agent or similar which shouldn't cause too much difficulty for later seal removal with a pick-type seal removal tool.

 

Cheers

Gavin

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Thanks for your replies.

Yes, it is the front crack oil seal in the timing cover.

John, I think you are right, the Hylomar acts as a lubricant, and if the hole is slightly deformed, it may slide out.

I used hylomar in the first place because it it not a nice machined bore in the cover, so wanted to make sure it would not leak.

 

Mike and Gavin,

If i use a setting (hardening) compound like locktite, it might start leaking too? Fractures, not sticking to either the seal or the cover?

 

I will give it a try first without Hylomar, see what happens and look up what loctite has. 565 says: for metal parts

 

 

Not the best part to experiment with, given the amount of rework if it fails during normal driving.

I will keep you posted.

 

Thanks,

Waldi

Edited by Waldi

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Clean everything up and put it in dry.

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Thanks Dave,

Been there before?

Cheers,

Waldi

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Waldi.

 

Another couple of suggestions for you. We use a product in our workshop called 3 Bond 1104 to seal alloy motorcycle crankcase halves where no gasket is used. It must work because you don't want to be dismantling the whole engine again because it didn't! My understanding is that the product is a copy (licenced or otherwise) of the original such product known as Yamabond, but at a fraction of the cost. Hence it is widely used here and has been for some time.

 

Another option, perhaps better suited to your particular problem, is their 1386B for welch plugs. I've not used it but given the quality of their products that I have used I wouldn't hesitate if the need arose.

 

First page of the spec sheets for each below (full pdfs were too large sorry).

 

post-14246-0-60642500-1530861968_thumb.jpgpost-14246-0-98728400-1530862028_thumb.jpg

 

Regards

Gavin

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Hi Waldi. I had the same problem as you a few weeks ago. I could get the seal in to the recess but it didn't seem to seat fully and would pop back out again even though I was using Permatex aircraft gasket sealer. I actually had two new seals because I had bought one and then discovered that one also came in the gasket set. I managed to get the second one to fit and stay in so I decided that there was a slight difference in the circumference of the two seals. I used the old seal as a drift to help push the new one in square in my vice with some 2x4 timber. Worked for me. Good luck. Sean

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Hi,

I installed a new engine front oil seal (2 x3x3/8, rubber with steel reinforced) and to my surprise it popped out of the cover after 10 minutes.

I used Hylomar-blue for belts&braces.

The cover looks ok, the old seal was also glued in and came out not too easy.

Cover shows no obvious damage.

Anyone has had this before?

And a clue why?

Thanks,

Waldi

Hi Waldi,

 

Yes! this happen to me after a complete power unit rebuild last year. The conclusion that I came to last year was that I may not have pushed the oil seal fully home in the timing cover. Your blue-hylomar may have reacted with the rubber casing- compound causing it to expand and then pop out. What I did was to use evo-stik an in-pack adhesive and let it go nearly off. Then using a fly- press with a punch very slightly under- size to the bore of the timing -cover, pushed the seal fully in and left it in that position over night. No more problems since and have done the EC500 in Scotland of door to door of 1925 miles!

Bruce.

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Thanks Sean and Bruce,

mine did not go fully in too.

Looks like there is an underlaying cause, glad I asked, what a powerfull forum this is👍.

I will see if I can do some measurements.

Regards,

Waldi

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Thanks Sean and Bruce,

mine did not go fully in too.

Looks like there is an underlaying cause, glad I asked, what a powerfull forum this is.

I will see if I can do some measurements.

Regards,

Waldi

Hi Waldi!

 

I had to apply quite a bit of force to bottom the seal in the timing cover!

 

Bruce.

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On both the TR6 and the TR3 my experience is the seal is a press fit into the timing chain cover. It takes a bit of force to fully seat it. It is hard to imagine that seal just popping out unless there is a problem with the seal, and/or the timing cover or the installation procedure. Can you post a picture of the installed seal for us ?

 

Stan

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Hi Stan,

I have not installed the seal yet.

I did not understand why the vice could no push the seal fully in (the first bit went in easy), off course there is a radius on the cover, but I think the seal was 2 mm from the bottom of the cover.

Will post a picture of my next attempt:)

Thanks,

Waldi

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Got it.

the hole (bore) in the cover looked ok, and sufficient deep, even if the bottom radius was deducted.

I pressed in the seal without any sealant, first with a 2x4 piece of timber in my vice, but that was not enough to push the seal fully in.

I then stuck 3 pieces 5/16 bolts, equal lentgh in the "groove"of the seal and carefully pushed the seal further in, going round the periphery step by step, again with the timber block and the vice.

I left it for 1 hr, it did not come out.

Just for safety, after the seal stayed in ok, I filled the void between seal and cover with some hylomar blue, but I gues this is not needed, as suggested by Dave above.

post-13554-0-13361600-1531076868_thumb.jpgpost-13554-0-72614400-1531076877_thumb.jpg

 

Note the seal has a double lip, the outer lip prevents wear from the inner lip by road dirt etc. So make sure you order a seal with a double lip for this application.

 

Thanks again for all your hints.

Regards,

Waldi

Edited by Waldi

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