CalT Posted June 30, 2018 Report Share Posted June 30, 2018 (edited) Hi all, Just looking for a bit of info, Ive seen this is a fairly regular topic but thought Id ask for myself... Im currently trying to get my TR6 (a 1972 with fuel injection) to run again, its been a while. Ive worked my way through the ignition system and Im happy there is a spark, now looking at the fuel system. I think the best course of action will be to get the fuel injection system overhauled, at least the metering unit and injectors, possibly the pump as well. Firstly can someone recommend someone to complete this work? Ive heard mention of Neil Ferguson the most, I take it Neil is the best in this area? Im sure it doesnt matter but I am up in Edinburgh so I think everything will be done by post. Secondly when I do get everything overhauled is it best to get my own stuff back or does it really not matter? (I.e exchange for reconditioned parts or send my own away to be reconditioned?) Thirdly cost? Roughly how much should I expect to pay for this work? And lastly have I missed anything? Is there anything else I should be considering? Thanks Cal Edited June 30, 2018 by CalT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scotty Posted June 30, 2018 Report Share Posted June 30, 2018 Heard good things re Neil Fergusons work , never used him , Ive sent mine to Malcolm at prestige injection in the past - 2 cars , both ran fantastically afterwards. Im just up the road from you . Yes post only I think Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike3739 Posted June 30, 2018 Report Share Posted June 30, 2018 This Hi all,Just looking for a bit of info, Ive seen this is a fairly regular topic but thought Id ask for myself...Im currently trying to get my TR6 (a 1972 with fuel injection) to run again, its been a while. Ive worked my way through the ignition system and Im happy there is a spark, now looking at the fuel system.I think the best course of action will be to get the fuel injection system overhauled, at least the metering unit and injectors, possibly the pump as well.Firstly can someone recommend someone to complete this work? Ive heard mention of Neil Ferguson the most, I take it Neil is the best in this area? Im sure it doesnt matter but I am up in Edinburgh so I think everything will be done by post.Secondly when I do get everything overhauled is it best to get my own stuff back or does it really not matter? (I.e exchange for reconditioned parts or send my own away to be reconditioned?)Thirdly cost? Roughly how much should I expect to pay for this work?And lastly have I missed anything? Is there anything else I should be considering?ThanksCal Hi Cal This is who I used when I had my 6 rebuilt over fourteen years ago & 44,000 miles later. It has been driven hard & many overseas trips, never had an issue. Malcolm did the lot by post including the Throttle bodies. http://prestigeinjection.net/ Really nice & very knowledgeable his workshop is a place of wonder clean as an F1 garage. Cheers Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CalT Posted June 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2018 Thanks all, thats two for Malcolm so far then. Just up the road Scotty? Further North than Edinburgh? What did you guys get done? MU, injectors, fuel pump... Cheers Cal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaveN Posted June 30, 2018 Report Share Posted June 30, 2018 Neil Ferguson did mine and a box full of spares. MU’s and injectors! Quick turnaround. Very pleased with the standard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobinTR6 Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Neil has done loads of returns on my Tr6s. MU, injectors, Lucas pump and injector hoses and PRVs, all very good and sensibly priced, so can commend his work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 "Exceeding my expectations" That is what Neil did. Highly recommended. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 (edited) Following my experience I would without hesitation recommend Neil Ferguson. 1 Send injectors, metering unit and injector to metering unit nylon lines for new lines on your fittings. 2 Pump. If you have a Lucas then it is probably old and tired, send off to Neil for a rebuild, if it is a Bosch then await refitting of all refurbished parts and try out first.. Then there is the electrics, plumbing and filter work, 3 Fit relay and heavy duty wire to pump and at the same time run a direct earth wire back from pump to battery earth chassis bolt. Can't over emphasise importance of good electrics in any make of pump. 4 Whilst the parts are away check that the choke cable moves freely at the metering unit end, sticking slightly on is a known issue. 5 Check your pressure relief valve (prv) near pump if it is an old Lucas then replace with a new style. 6 Then there is the boot rubber pipework from tank to pump, return lines from prv, replace it all with Gates Barricade (Moss supply by metre) or boot will smell of petrol. 7 Perhaps a new pre and post pump filter if funds are good. 8 Whilst fuel tank is empty ensure gauge reads empty! PI's like to run with minimum of 1/4 tank so that reading is important, full is when the garage pump stops when filling so not too important. My experience is overhauled parts and good installation makes for a trouble-free injection system, skimping on low cost items such as wire and pipes is just a pain that will be fitted soon anyway after you have had grief. Alan Edited July 1, 2018 by barkerwilliams Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mk2 Chopper Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 This is all good info for my 6 (particularly my injectors). One thing I wanted to pick up on was the comment about PI cars needing a 1/4 of a tank of fuel, can you elaborate on this, as I had a break down, engine cut out and I put it down to over heated coil, cooled it and it ran again, but I also wasn't sure if had been a fuel issue, at the time I was heading to get some fuel and the gauge was between empty and 1/4 of a tank. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 You need fuel cool enough and with sufficient head to prevent it boiling before it gets to the pump. The pressure of the petrol at the pump inlet comes from the head in the tank less the friction losses along the inlet pipe . After nearly 50 years of tinkering there are many different fuel pump arrangements. I have a booster pump next to the spare wheel (lowest point available) feeding the Bosch pump inlet. I have to keep the inlet pressure to the booster pump above the petrol's vapour pressure at the temperature it's working at. To do that I keep my tank over 1/4 full, preferably 1/2 full whenever possible. It's another matter, but for storage I fill the tank to prevent internal water condensation in the air space above the fuel. There should be a swirl pot in your tank to prevent it sucking air, spluttering and stopping especially on hard LH cornering. And years ago I had the engine cut out on a long run then restart after I opened the fuel cap. I drove home from that with the cap loose until I could clean its vent hole. I wouldn't recommend running a PI TR6 with less than a 1/4 full tank. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 (edited) Cal, As per Mike above fuel sloshes about also:- Turn the ignition on and the fuel pump runs, it runs at the same, full speed whether the engine has not started or you are driving at 100mph. So the prv returns the fuel to the tank. It is an electric pump so it gets warm, bad electric supply means it struggles so gets even warmer. The pump transfers heat the fuel to keep cool and returns it to the tank (shades of Concord there). The fuel in the tank gets warmer, and warmer and warmer. The sun warms the boot lid and the tank gets even warmer, the tank sits above the rear exhaust box and the boot and tank gets even warmer. Eventually it is so hot you get a vapour lock in the pump / metering unit and the engine dies (hopefully not half way around a roundabout). After 15 minutes the car will start and you have maybe five minutes driving before it dies again with a new vapour lock until you can put some nice cool fuel in the tank. 1/4 of a tank is a reasonable sized heat reservoir, less fuel on a hot day risks ignominiously stopping without warning. It is not a problem, it is just one thing you need to manage whist driving and keep a goodly supply of fuel especially on a hot day and have been driving for a few hours. It genuinely is an enjoyable car to drive and once the fuel system is sorted, it is very reliable. Alan Edited July 1, 2018 by barkerwilliams Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mk2 Chopper Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Thanks for the comments guys, makes perfect sense and a good way to manage the system Gareth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Cal, As a side note and a man with large hands I find one of this type of small ratchet wrench "https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ratchet-Wrench-Screwdriver-Rod-1-4-Hex-Socket-Wrench-Spanner-Hand-Tools-DE/222981713686?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D49131%26meid%3D7e0fecbb8e314dad9fe2c9989f3dc8f3%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D232824172590%26itm%3D222981713686&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851" useful to wind in the metering unit bolts, quicker and less frustrating than a spanner. Final tightening with something longer with more umph. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CalT Posted July 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Thanks all, some great info and food for thought there. Im going to remove the injectors, MU, injector hoses, fuel pump and PRV and send them all away for reconditioning. Also going to have a good look through what is remaining in the car as suggested and get that all prepd for the return of the rest of the kit. Just need to figure out how to remove the MU now... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Steve Vitesse online manuals for download "https://app.box.com/s/3458383708b0fb05d75f" Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Thanks all, some great info and food for thought there. Im going to remove the injectors, MU, injector hoses, fuel pump and PRV and send them all away for reconditioning. Also going to have a good look through what is remaining in the car as suggested and get that all prepd for the return of the rest of the kit. Just need to figure out how to remove the MU now... I would also carefully check your manifold butterfly spindles for wear and that they are closing properly, no day light should show when viewed from the cyl. head side . This has a major effect on tick over performance? Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chilp3 Posted July 2, 2018 Report Share Posted July 2, 2018 Hi Cal, As another suggestion I would also recommend taking a look at your throttle linkages to ensure they're in good condition as these can also hinder you when setting up the system and balancing the throttle bodies. Best Regards, Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Henry Duncan Posted July 5, 2018 Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 Cal, There is also Chic Doig in Cardenen Fife - a bit closer to home - you could take the whole car to him. I've got some spares from him in the past and he is also a Triumph specialist. http://www.chicdoig.co.uk/ Rgds Henry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted July 5, 2018 Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 I have used both Malcolm at Prestige and Neil Fergussen Both excellent but Neil is such a joy to deal with that he gets my vote. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
richard61 Posted July 7, 2018 Report Share Posted July 7, 2018 Gates Barricade is only recommended for low pressure return pipes, is ther something for the high pressure side? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted July 7, 2018 Report Share Posted July 7, 2018 Yes, there is, 225 psi tested iirc. I bought mine in the USA, and a colleague brought it to EU for me. Think it is also available in the UK, but not the finished hose with fittings pressed on fittings. Here is a link to the product: https://ww2.gates.com/europe/downloads/download_common.cfm?file=70517_E2_BARRICADE_BROCHURE.pdf&folder=brochure&location_id=19079 Regards, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted July 7, 2018 Report Share Posted July 7, 2018 Yes, there is, 225 psi tested iirc. I bought mine in the USA, and a colleague brought it to EU for me. Think it is also available in the UK, but not the finished hose with fittings pressed on fittings. Here is a link to the product: https://ww2.gates.com/europe/downloads/download_common.cfm?file=70517_E2_BARRICADE_BROCHURE.pdf&folder=brochure&location_id=19079 Regards, Waldi Hi Waldi, I had to get some of my Gates hose from Australia when my cousin came to stay with me last summer. Moss by accident do some of the sizes but did not realize that this make was one of the best ethanol proof hose types on the market????. I will let you think about that one They do not do, when I asked for 1/8" or 3/8" bore size but other sizes they do. I went to my local hose supplier to have fittings swaged on, they have never let me down and seem to have fittings for all TR applications! Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted July 7, 2018 Report Share Posted July 7, 2018 Hi Bruce, Yes, I know. I contacted one of the TR specialists last year and provided him with the information of the Barricade hoses, for his consideration. He was not interested, so I ordered them my-selves. There is another hose that complies to the EU spec for fuel hoses, made in Germany, but I had access to the Gates product so bought these. A word of caution for those not familiar with specifications for fuel hoses: I bought some fuel hose marked suitable for unleaded fuel, and although strickly true, it is less suitable for ethanol containing fuels, which become the standard. High emissions (leakage through the hose wall), many times more than the correct hose, is the result. Regards, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted July 7, 2018 Report Share Posted July 7, 2018 In 2013 I imported some SAE J30 R9 from the UK to use on my TR6, it lasted until 2017 on Australian high octane unleaded. I replaced it with the Gates Barricade high pressure product which seems OK so far. Gates fuel hose is available from the Australian motor parts supplier Repco who also sell on line but I'm not sure if they ship to the UK. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CalT Posted July 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 Hi all, just been out working on the car, got the injectors and pump out no problem, looking at the MU now. Can anyone point me in the right direction here? What is the best way to do this? Also, what is the best way to get the engine to TDC on 1? Cheers Cal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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