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Diff or what?

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#1 david c

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 07:43 PM

I realise this is probably not a good time to start asking questions what with the International and all.

 

But on the way home from a club meet yesterday I noticed a distinct "clonk" from the back end stuff when after changing gear the drive was taken up. I have not noticed this before.

 

I jacked up the back of the car this morning to investigate, and I found that with the wheels on there  was a good 2 inches of travel in either direction before I felt the diff. take up.

 

What should I be looking for please?

 

Many thanks David


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#2 MRG1965

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Posted 30 June 2018 - 07:07 AM

Hi David, might be prop shaft uj's clonking, which is cheaper and easier to fix.
Check for any play at each uj.

Mark
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#3 david c

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Posted 30 June 2018 - 08:50 AM

Thanks Mark, will get the car back up in the air and check.

 

David


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#4 Horse

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 01:46 PM

David,

 

In addition to checking the prop shaft and drive shaft U/Js, if you can, also check for obvious play at the diff input and output flanges; note that the input shaft/flange is splined.  One can easily check for excessive backlash in the diff itself by turning the input flange (prop shaft) and seeing how much play there is before the drive shafts move.

 

I had a very similar problem, which proved to be an drive shaft flange moving on the diff output shaft.  Mine first started when driving off in first with the steering on full lock, and got gradually worse until it happened on taking up the drive in any gear or on the overrun.  I had the diff professionally overhauled and was told that this is a known problem; the diff was in good condition requiring only bearings, seals and shims.  The diff output shafts are tapered with a woodruff key for location and drive should be transmitted essentially by friction between the tapered sections of shaft and flange.  The clonk was the flange keyway hitting the key, in spite of the retaining nut being fully tight and a press having been necessary to split the shafts and flanges during overhaul.  After the overhaul the clonk had gone - for about 2500 miles, when it came back again, although currently much reduced!  I have decided to live with it.

 

If the backlash in the diff is not too great and the diff is not too noisy, personally I would not worry unless the 'clonk' really becomes excessive.  If you decide to get your diff overhauled. I was very please with the work of Hardy Engineering Transmissions Ltd of Leatherhead (www.hardyengineering.co.uk).

 

Geoff


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#5 Kevo_6

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 02:46 PM

+1 for Hardy Engineering, did a great job on my diff.
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Cheers Kev.


#6 david c

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 09:10 PM

Thanks Gents

The down side of having a nice cosy "Essex barn" type of workshop is that when it's hot it's very very hot and when it's cold it's comfortable, right now it's really too hot to work in after about 10 o'clock, so no heavy work is going to get started, I know I'm a wimp!. I have 3 spare drive shafts, all of which look to be in very good condition, nice sharp splines and no play in the UJ's so hoping to cure the problem with a straight swop over, ever the optimist.

I'm hoping I don't have to drop the Diff. Looks like another job to look forward  this winter............it's getting to be quite a list.

 

 

David


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#7 TR4Geoff

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 10:50 AM

David,

 

Have only just seen this topic - another thought - do you have wire wheels? If so there might be play on the splines between the hub extensions and the wheel hubs?

 

Geoff


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#8 david c

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 07:44 PM

I think maybe, just possibly, perhaps I have found the problem.

I took of the offside drive shaft only to discover that it seemed to be in much the same condition as my three "spares" ie tight and rotating smoothly with no apparent play in either of the uj's.

The inner shaft, the one that goes into the diff. was not such a good news story, it has a little play in it and it feels rough as though grinding.

I assume I can't just unbolt it and pull it out to have a look. 

I am prepared for the worst so my next question is should I get the dif. serviced, ie new bearings and oil seals etc or simply buy a ready sorted exchange unit?

Having looked at the big brown book this is not a job a fancy I could do at home.........with my level of skill.

 

David


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#9 PYU940F

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 09:35 PM

Either way the diff has to come off. Then take it to Hardy Engineering in Leatherhead. You will find many posts here singing their praises.

Dropping the diff is not too difficult once you have got the exhaust out of the way. (3 U/J's and the 4 attachment nuts and then it drops on your chest unless you have it well supported with a trolley jack.

Have fun

Simon


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#10 stillp

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 02:54 PM

 

Dropping the diff is not too difficult once you have got the exhaust out of the way. 

Don't forget the fuel pipe too! (Ask me how I know...)

 

Pete


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#11 david c

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 05:30 PM

Yes I read that, not much fun. I will be taking it very slowly ( I Hope).

All ready to lower I have taken out the outer drive shafts and as soon as I can get the rear propshaft bolts undone.

can't get a socket near them, much less my trusty impact thingy, so have drowned them in WD40 and will have another go tomorrow.

 

David


Edited by david c, 14 July 2018 - 05:33 PM.

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#12 PYU940F

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 09:05 PM

What fuel pipe tool? I did not disturb any fuel pipes, perhaps my fuel pipes are non standard.

 

Simon


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#13 stuart

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 10:31 AM

You shouldnt need to disturb any fuel pipes, Prop bolts will need two spanners as its virtually impossible to get a socket on them.

Stuart.


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#14 stillp

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 10:51 AM

What fuel pipe tool? I did not disturb any fuel pipes, perhaps my fuel pipes are non standard.

 

Simon

Or perhaps mine was! Just under the drive shaft.

 

Pete


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#15 david c

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 06:35 PM

Diff. out horay!

The propshaft bolts gave in..... in the end, I think they took pity on me. One broken spanner (rubbish tools total waste of money). eventually shifted with one decent spanner wedged against bodywork and the other aided by a long tube to increase leverage much effort resulted in a satisfying clink and this time it wasn't a broken spanner.

Diff. lowered in a partly controlled fashion avoiding the fuel line, now I know roughly where the centre of balance is.

It is tempting to take the back cover of and have a look see. But as I would rather not do this particular job again I think I will leave it be and go for an exchange unit, 

 

Thanks all for your advise really appreciate it. David

 

Lessons learned, buy better spanners, soak everything in WD40 or similar for 24 Hours, get the car up higher, use patience and brute force. Heat would have been a great help but working a little too close to the fuel lines for that option.


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#16 RogerH

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Posted Yesterday, 18:48

Hi David,

           when you get the replacement diff can you assess the amount of free movement on the input pinion and pass on the info.

 

Roger


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Time is a drug - Too much will kill you
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TR4 - March 1962 transforming like the proverbial caterpillar - it's now Royal Blue and now with the chromy bits.
 
 
 
 
 

#17 david c

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Posted Yesterday, 19:34

Oh er, Roger I think you are getting me confused with some on technically minded.

I fitted a shiny new / refurbished diff. yesterday, drive shafts and exhaust back on today brakes and wheels tomorrow.

The back end is still up in the air and if you give me some idea what I can do to give you the answers you need (if I am not too far advanced) I'd be very happy to do it.

My initial assessment some weeks ago was limited to jacking up the car and rotating the wheels until I felt the resistance of the diff. result was about 2" in old money at the top of the tread before anything happened.

With the old diff off I noticed some play and a grinding noise from the near side inner shaft, I had thought I could hear something from that wheel while I was driving about, Confirmed with the diff off and up on the bench. I also found One of the UJ circlip type things flush with the yolk just rusted and gunged in place so that is reseated and the clip thing back in the groove.

Have discovered that the three "spare" driveshafts must have been an earlier type as the have the fine threaded screw on joints between the two outer shaft bits.

so the old shafts have been cleaned up regreased and put back into service, will see tomorrow if it was a duff diff............or something else  :unsure: 

 

David


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#18 RogerH

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Posted Yesterday, 20:07

Hi David,

            if you can still get safely under the car then rotate the prop shaft at the front and see what sort of play there is.

I have about 5+mm on the circumference of the input flange.

 

Roger


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Time is a drug - Too much will kill you
Forgive your enemy, but remember the ass-hole's name.
never surrender, never give up and always balance your butterflies

Veni Vidi Flati
TR4A - July 1967 daily driver         2010 RBRR No.22  2014 RBRR No.69
TR4 - March 1962 transforming like the proverbial caterpillar - it's now Royal Blue and now with the chromy bits.
 
 
 
 
 

#19 david c

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Posted Yesterday, 20:28

Oh okay, will do.........in the morning.


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#20 david c

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Posted Today, 14:00

All fitted and test driven, what a diff-erence, take up now a smooth as a very smooth thing.

Thanks Richard for supplying a nice Diff. and assorted shiny bits.

That should be all now 'till the winter season.................

Roger did as you suggested, turning the prop shaft the movement before the diff takes up looks very minimal. As you know I am far from being an expert but to me it looked like no more than 3 or 4mm at the input flange before the diff engaged but as I say no expert so it could have been anywhere between 2 and 5mm.

 

Thanks to every one on this brilliant forum for you  help and advise David


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