POWER STEERING

[Z320]

Hi Marcel,

thank you for your post, perhaps my posting will help anyone to trust more hin his own skills.

After a long friday at the office todays evening I was not very much motivated, so I did only littel work on this:

to push the inner shaft from the Renault EPS unit the M12 thread at its end (and a threaded bar) was very usefull - but soon I have to cut it off.

To have furthermore the possibility to do that again (whyever) I made e little insert with M1o thread that fitts the end that I have to press on the unit again.

I will glue that with - Loctite

Tomorrow I have to do some construction work on our house, and I have to wait for a tool I ordered.

By the way my advice: when ever you need a tool and it is affordable for you - do not limit yourself, do not hesitate and buy it at once, that will help you to step on.

Ciao Marco

 

[Waldi]

Hi Marco,

keep them coming!

I’m surprised by the amount of machining required to make it fit, but it will be a beautiful end-result, not to forget the joy you have working on it and us reading your progress and solutions.

Waldi

[Z320]

Hi Waldi,

perhaps I am caught in the possibilities I have and I can not see the easier way.

Problem is the limited space for the steering lock; on a serial of units I would not screw but press the inner tube in the sensor unit....

But indeed, this mechanical work is a joy to me and I'm a little bit sad about the closer coming end of the project.

But others are waiting because still not finished and others already appear on the horizon.

Time to introduce you the little helpers, special made tools, exercise pieces and scrap, most of them finally go their way to the wast.

Ciao Marco

 

 

[Lebro]

He's a blikin' marvel, that man    

Really impressed with your skills, & imagination.  Keep it up.

Bob.

[Z320]

Thanks Bob!

Next I decided to use the original Renault luck bush, but the wrong way round.

Had to reduce its diameter to 28 mm to fit the tube 32x1,5 mm (di=29 mm) and about 18 mm shorter, on the photo you see the cut.

Connector is also ready, made of black POM, inside diameter about 22,10 mm to use it as a bearing for the Renault shaft.

To press the original spring steel bush between shaft and lock bush I had to made a little helper di=22 mm.

And a distancer made of steel tube about 25 mm high, not to press the lock bush on the bigger end of the shaft by accident (to avoid to press it wider). 

 

Checking the result, that will finally fit lovely rgen the shaft is on the EPS unit again.

Next is to connect both shafts.

Want to do it like telescopic walking sticks work,

soldering would be easier but not adjustable, I can do that anyway if my idea does not work.

For welding machining steel or to weld anything on a steering I'm not brave enough.

Ciao Marco

[Z320]

Hi,

a lovely rainy sunday to have some progress with the power steering.

Earlier this week I cut off the inner Renault teeth end to measure insinde (15 mm) to have some thought about the connection.

Today I put the shaft on the EPS unit without force to determine its lenght, with force it will go 4 mm closer.

Fitted outer tube, connector and "electrikal terminal", shaft is 9 mm too long - have to make it 9 mm - 4 mm = 5 mm shorter

(alreday done, work is in progress) .

Other side: fixed my Moto-Lita on the TR shaft I alreday made.

A little helper made of white POM helps to determine the lenght, + 40 mm for the teething.

Teeth making, 40 mm long, want to make it adjustable - 5 to + 20 mm

It's already finished now, you will see it again when all fitts together.

Ciao Marco

 

[Waldi]

Hi Marco,

you are getting close.

must ve a great moment to combine old and new together.

Waldi

[Hamish]

So impressed with your skill Marco. 

Its been a great project to watch and see how you worked through the hurdles. 

I knew I should have got a trade or practical skills rather than do an environmental health degree !!

H

[Z320]

Indeed I'm a little bit scared about the thinks I want to do on the Renault steering shaft.

Probably no real problem, but I have a problem if I ruin it or it does not work like I hope it does.

With the thread M32x1 in the sensor housing I was not that afraid - but I was younger and careless that days

 

 

 

[Z320]

Holiday at south Germany today...

Both shafts are teethed now, TR shaft sticks in Renault shaft

Adjustable for about 20 mm.

That will be the lock nut, hex 27 mm, inside M22x1.5, last 9 mm tappered, 18.5 mm x 5° (5° on the late, 10° at all)

Ciao Marco

[Z320]

Thank you very much to Bob who gave me the idea to make an connetion like this.

 

[Tim Carr]

I have come late to this topic and have enjoyed reading about it from the first post. Good luck with the installation in your TR and please keep us informed with progress.

I might add that I was very impressed with your installation of Pierburg fuel cut outs on the carburetors of your TR. You completed your installation whilst I was still thinking about it. Well done.   

Tim

[Z320]

Hi Tim and hi to all who follow this report, thank you to be patience with me.

Next perhaps will be the real challenge - to get it legaliced by the TÜV and dokumented by them in the cars papers.

You perhaps heared horror stories about them, but they are not that bad.

On one of my motorbikes (80 HP) I have total switched over brakes legaliced by the TÜV with the short commet in the papers: "brakes own made" - that's all....

Today was small work: cleaned up the tools, late and drilling michine, give parts to the scrap box, some paint in the clamps,

further made a dust cover for the 2RS (!) needle bearing and oil drill on the outer end (guess the TÜV will like this)

and a indicator return clip of spring steel that is not that strong as the original - and so adjustable.

Tomorrow I give the TÜV a phone call.

Ciao Marco 

.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Z320

[Z320]

The recommended inspector is on holiday for two weeks....

[Z320]

Good news:

the recommended inspector is / was not on holiday, we had date and he was very pleased about the quality work I made.

As it is a DIY project I do not have a ABE "transl. = gerneral operating permit", what is alway extremely helpful for a registration in the cars papers.

But he will register the EPS in the car's papers anyway als "own made based on Renault unit"!!!!

BUT also bad news:

Than the car will lose its H-registartion (historic cars), what meens a loss of huge benefits (tax, insurance, driving permision).

On a car with H-registration the fitting of a power steering is only allowed when it was a order option by the factory in the year it was build - it was not.

With both eyes closed a hydraulic power steering COULD be possible, when it was a option of its period, best from another car of the producer (Triumph).

So I have to choose....

[EXTR6]

[Z320]

Now it's time for some electric experiments, had to wait for cables and plugs.

You see Bruno's black box with the black cable connected to +12 V ignition, the white cable connected to 0 V ground,

also the adjustable resistor 0 - 100 kOhm with yellow and grey cables to the black box. Out going the black box is a black cable (+12 V) to switch

on the Renault calculator, further a blue and red one with alternating signals (a friend will help me to find out).

One of them will be "speed", the other one is probably "engine running".

That all does not work and does not make any sound without the torque (and direction) sensor not connected (had to wait for a 4 pin plug).

All connectet the calculator works prompt after switching +12 V on the black box, delay is only about 1 second!

Turning the steering wheel left and right while fixing the steering joint the EPS unit turns right and left.

Thanks to my weak power unit the EPs units movement is limited and I still got all fingers and all bones are OK.

 

Now thinking about how the control it automaticly by speed.

Idea is to switch 2 adjustable resistors by switches in the gear box for R, 1, 2 (have to drill it), not 0, 3, 4. 

Ciao Marco

[Spit_2.5PI]

This is all great stuff Marco, I wish I had your workshop ... and your mechanical skills.

Regarding speed control, what I was going to do was have a sensor on, for example, the gearbox output flange, and sense the nuts going round with an inductive sensor. Then, to make it easy, I was going to use a frequency to voltage converter like an LM2907 or LM2917 to generate a simple speed voltage. Then I was going to put that voltage into an LM331 (voltage to frequency) which I had already built and is what I use to generate my speed signal. This way I thought it would easy to vary the sensitivity to speed until I got it just right.

But in the end, I found that minimum sensitivity was fine at all speeds so I never got around to doing the LM2907 part of the circuit.

Cheers, Richard

[Z320]

Hi Richard,

thank you for your post, I remember our PMs from September very well.

I expected the torsion sensor is enough for an indirect speed regulation and you told me the unit works well with minimum assistance on all speeds.

(by the way: is there a speed regulation on hydraulic power steering and how does it work?) 

The idea to switch different resistors on gear R, 1, 2 and not the hole unit (Peter's idea) is from a friend of mine.

First I want to use it your way but I would be pleased to have the possibility to switch the resistor.

As I have to remove the dashboard and also look for the fault rear switch (reversing light) I would set additional switches for an optional use.

My electric skills are "OK", but my electronic skills are bad, hopefully with some guidance I could grow with the challenge

So thanks sor mention the micro chip types.

Ciao Marco

       

Edited November 18, 2018 by Z320

[Z320]

Hi,

after some other projects, some construction work on the house, some fuel locks and christmas holiday: the dashboard is out!

 

I think this is a good opportunity to get rid of that electric cable maze, set a new gear box switch (reverse light),

2 new heater hoses and a new gearbox mount (soft from too much oil). Further set two drills for the greace nipples on the clutch shaft

and another one for the gear box switch - and order suitable grommets.

Any other thoughts are wellcome...

Ciao / Cheers, Marco 

 

BTW: me wife said she has not opened the bonnet on the antenna tube  

I told her I believe it.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Z320

[Richard Pope]

On 11/10/2018 at 7:39 AM, Z320 said:

BUT also bad news:
 

How come? My understanding is that you are allowed mods for safety and economy as well. PS certainly gives you improved manouverabilty and take, for example a busy supermarket car park with children, push chairs, cars manouvering, etc., all over the place and power steering would certainly give you a safety edge over non-PS to avoid endangering people and cars.

Turn it in it's head and would you argure that it was safer to have non-PS than PS in such an evironment with the struggle in steering in/out of a parking bay with all those hazards? It would IMHO be a brave person to suggest that. The process is also self-certification AFAIK so I cannot see a problem. Again, an official would have to prove otherwise if challanged and I doubt he / she would have a case at all.

Same goes for the various suspension and brake mods as they are all improving safety. In my view, no contest.

 

Ah. I have just seen you are in Stuttgart. I am of course referring to UK situation. Sorry.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Richard Pope

[stillp]

7 hours ago, Richard Pope said:

PS certainly gives you improved manouverabilty and take, for example a busy supermarket car park with children, push chairs, cars manouvering, etc., all over the place and power steering would certainly give you a safety edge over non-PS to avoid endangering people and cars.

 

Really? I disagree, all power steering does is reduce the driver's effort.

Pete

[Charlie D]

Hello Marco,

Back in November you asked:

“..is there a speed regulation on hydraulic power steering and how does it work?..”

I believe that the Citroen SM has some sort of adjustment to the “Quality” of the power steering depending on the speed that the car was driven.

From what I remember the steering ration (Steering wheel turns to front wheel movement) changed as the speed got faster. (But I may be wrong.)

All you need to do is get a hydraulic circuit diagram of the Citroen SM and work it out from there.

From what I understand about Citroen hydraulic systems I guess it will involve a BIG piece of paper, with lots of lines and boxes drawn on it.

Good luck…….

Charlie.

[Richard Pope]

On 1/6/2019 at 6:51 PM, stillp said:

Really? I disagree, all power steering does is reduce the driver's effort.

Pete

Exactly. Have you ever used a non-powed steering car at low speeds trying to manover (like my Dax)? It has to be safer if you can manover and that's the point. Non PS cannot be safer, it has to be less safe.

 

Whilst I see it is Germany, the new rules are supposed to be EU wide which (who) sparked the whole change to our system anyway.

[stillp]

1 hour ago, Richard Pope said:

Exactly. Have you ever used a non-powed steering car at low speeds trying to manover (like my Dax)? It has to be safer if you can manover and that's the point. Non PS cannot be safer, it has to be less safe.

 

Whilst I see it is Germany, the new rules are supposed to be EU wide which (who) sparked the whole change to our system anyway.

Yes, I've driven plenty of cars (and trucks, and plant!) without PS, and don't think that non-PS is less safe.

Which "new rules" are you talking about Richard?

Pete