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Sale of Rally plates


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On 21st June, an auction is scheduled to take place under the Charterhouse banner at which two Rally plates are being offered:

1 - Lot 142, 1962 Tulip plate #10 (5VC, Thuner/Gretener)

2 - Lot 135, 1963 Liège plate #155 (4VC, Sutcliffe/Fidler)

 

I aware of the name of the vendor of these plates.

 

After email discussions with David Somerville (who drew my attention to the auction), Tony Sheach, Gareth Firth and Neil Revington, and additionally with Graham Robson and Bill Price (both of whom were actively involved in the era), Tony and I have decided not to bid for these plates.

 

Anyone else who might be considering a bid should be very diligent in their research work as these plates are not cheap - and the auction house adds 28.8% to cover buyer premium and VAT!

 

Ian Cornish

 

 

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Linked from the Charterhouse online catalog for their "Antiques, Clocks, Coins, Stamps, Militaria & Collectors' Items" auction on June 21st and 22nd.

 

Lot 135 (Estimate: 450 - 550 GBP):

original.jpg

Lot 142 (Estimate: 80 - 120 GBP):

original.jpg

Edited by Don H.
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Ian’s comment in post 1 that prospective purchasers “should be very diligent in their research” ,to me, implies that there is some doubt about the authenticity of the plates.

Graham

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Look at what appears to be a sticker on the L-S-L plate that's just about the size of the letters R O M E, and look at the oddly bold typeface and different shaped numerals from other 1962 Tulip plates.

They look like original plates from the period, but I can't explain these and some other inconsistencies.

Edited by Don H.
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Yes, beware there are many fake car items out there, including even cars! There was a classic case a few years ago after a 'genuine' works rally Cooper S went into a well known auctioneers & sold for a silly amount. I know from a very reliable source that it was a 'bitsa' with very little real history.

Cheers.

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FWIW, this thread has sent me off looking at photos of cars taking part in the 1963 "Liege" rally and it seems that rally plates (at least in 1963) were a little bit "approximate" at best...



Although it does appear that the word "Sofia" has been added to the auction item after the plate was originally made (possibly covering "Rome", as Don suggests), the actual rally in 1963 was the SPA-Sofia-Liege. Despite that, 4VC did carry a "Liege-Sofia-Liege" rally plate but at least some of the competitors actually had plates that said Spa-Sofia-Liege (e.g. the winning Mercedes and Vic Elford's Vitesse...).



To avoid any doubt: this is in no way intended to be presented as knowledgeable research or to disagree with the views above, I've just been looking a photos in books and on the internet; the cast list in Ian's original post are actual experts. I just thought it interesting to think about how such a major international rally obviously didn't really have it's act fully together - at least in terms of its rally plates.



Never mind the "genuine" rally cars that are sometimes for sale nowadays, even a genuine plate at the time might have been a "bitsa" ;):ph34r:


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Bill Price, intimately involved with the organisation of BMC's rallying at the time, says,

"I find that some cars on the 1963 Liege-Sofia-Liege are displaying plates clearly showing Spa-Sofia-Liege !!"

 

Page 26 of Reydellet's Tome 6 shows a very clear shot of the front of 5VC, and the sharp-eyed will note a not insignificant difference between the rally plate of 5VC and the image displayed in Don's post #5, above. It should not be forgotten that 5VC's driver, Jean-Jacques Thuner, is Swiss.

 

Ian Cornish

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By good fortune, I happen to have Tome 6 of Reydellet (the copy he originally presented to David Hobbs, from the disposition of Hobbs's library). As Ian notes, the image of 5VC on p 26 shows a front view of the car during competition with the rally plate shown distinctly. One can observe (1) a Swiss flag at the center of the plate, and (2) a different typeface to the number "10". The inconsistencies between this image and the plate at auction are not explained in the catalog description.

Edited by Don H.
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Here are a few 1962 Tulip rally plate images from recent eBay activity. These will expire at some point, but for now...

 

s-l500.jpg

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

s-l1600.jpg

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Frédéric's Tomes (all 6 of them, sitting on my bookshelf behind me here) are absolutely invaluable. Not cheap, but worth every GBP, Euro or whatever other currency one has to hand!

Ian Cornish

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On a different tack...

 

Another lot at this auction (LOT 127) is a pair (only one complete...??) of gearbox oil dispensers. I used to use one of these many years ago when I had access to a lift, and it was FANTASTIC!!! So easy to use (if you have a lift).

 

Recommended.

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The Charterhouse site now lists both these plates as "Lot Closed", which I take to mean that the Liège plate (Lot 115) sold for £300, the Tulip plate (Lot 142) for £60.

Purchaser has to pay additional 28.8% to cover buyer's premium and VAT. I don't know what Charterhouse charges the vendor.

Ian Cornish

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