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The joys of installing the vent lid


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Disclaimer: since owning my TR4, from 1995 onwards, I have never had the pleasure of a vent lid who would open by using the knob under the dash. The linking rod was missing. I could open it by manually from the outside though.

When my car was painted around 10 years ago, I removed the vent lid and stored it in a save place. So save that I never ever have found it again :blink:. So I drove the car without a lid for a couple of years, thinking that I would find it somewhere. But that never happened, so in the end I ordered a new lid from Rimmer complete with a new rod, three 5/16" bolts and a new rubber.

 

At first I bolted down the new lid with the rubber, noticed it did not fit too well and would need further attention. I did not have time at the moment, or lacked the courage, to fit it all including the rod. So for some more couples of years I drove with the unpainted new lid which still could not be opened from the interior.

 

Yesterday I had enough of all this and tried to start again. Oh well. A coupe of things noticed.

 

1. The surface of the lid needs finishing. Spot welds are visible at the top. This would need a layer of filler?

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2. Aligning the lid is difficult. It still is too close to the body at the LH rear corner. I enlarged the holes for the three bolts in order to make position adjustment possible, and even cut off 3 mm from the mounting strip (which contains the holes for the bolts) in order to make it possible to move forward the lid. It cannot be moved further forward, it would then not be aligned to the ridge of the lid-cutout in the body. I can only assume the lid is a little too wide at the LH side.

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to be continued....

 

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3. The rubber is either too big or the lip, where it fits to, is too big. Either way I cannot lower the lid enough to become flush with the surrounding area. Note that the LH sits higher than the RH.

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4. That rubber is just a tiny bit too short, so fitting it is troublesome. Also, the holes do not correspond with the holes in the lid strip where the bolts go through. So I enlarged the holes. The rubber is not tight enough to keep sitting on the lip, it will need some form of glue or whatever. Any tips grateful received.

 

5. The bolts are fine. Problem I had that one of the captive nuts broke, on the LH side, so when fitting the bolt the nut needs to be kept in place with a spanner. Not that there is much room for the spanner! In fact there is just enough room to hold a tiny spanner, with results to cuts in the hand, removing of the rubber etc etc. Lots of fun!

 

6. The "ears" of the lid are too close to the back lip. Which means the rubber needs a cut there or the ears do not have enough space. Ideally some metal needs to be removed form the ears.

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7. The rod does not fit to the hole in one of the ears. Hole needs to be enlarged. The rod itself needs bending via trail and error to see what works. I found a bicycle fitting to fit the rod onto the dash lever.

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8. The dash lever now works, but when pushing it down (to close the vent) the vent still does not go low enough - one small touch and it springs open.

 

So, not finished!

It must be said that it all is very fiddly work - the bolts only just accept a ring spanner, the rubber gets in the way.

 

Anyone had the same experiences? Any tips and comments welcome.

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IMHO...

The repro lid is of poor quality...source another...or you will need to massage the edges where they are not at right angles to the main body of the lid...

Start the process by trial fitting the lid on its own, not attached and no rubber seal....if the lid does not have sufficient clearance around the edges, send it back for a refund...if clearance is ok, perhaps use some plasticine or play dough at a couple of spots under the lid to determine how thick the rubber seal needs to be for good fitment.

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8. The dash lever now works, but when pushing it down (to close the vent) the vent still does not go low enough - one small touch and it springs open.

 

 

 

 

one way of getting the vent to close properly is to spring-load the rod as per the picture (you get the idea). You need to thread the rod end and add a stop bolt

 

 

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The vent seals I have tried from the usual suppliers are always to big and don't allow the vent lid to sit flush. I use the 5mm dia. version of the Woolies R10 (page 19) rubber extrusion. This is smaller than the illustrated R10 and I don't think is listed in their catalogue. Just need to ring them.

Alan.

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+1 for a dodgy new lid assuming it is a repro.

I fitted a new rubber from TR Shop to my 4A last year, part no 611118 and it fits fine with my original lid. Either do as Alan suggests with Woolies extrusion or source a used lid.

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The rubber indeed was the fault. It is just far too big to fit.

The lid itself is not the best reproduction, I shaved off metal from the ears and the shape is not exactly how it should be (too wide). Also it would be so much better if the spot welds did not show up on the surface.

I removed the rubber and the lid fit is acceptable now. Put on some self adhesive closed cell rubber on top of the lip and to the bottom of the lid, it is now fairly level with the surrounding body.

 

@Chris - thanks for the tip, I will order the rubber from the TR shop next time when I have some more to order.

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  • 11 months later...

I had ordered a new lid for my TR6 last year and tried fitting it yesterday, spent 2 or 3 hrs on it. I had not read this post....but had exactly the same experience.

I had to enlarge the holes in the mounting lip of the lid, grind some material of the hinges which were hitting the rear edge of the hole in the body, it now is aligned properly with bonnet and scuttle and opens well, without the seal installed that is. But the rubber seal is much too high, 11 mm is what I measured, but the total depth in the scuttle is only 8 mm, so that should be the height of seal AND lid.

I feel the seal should be approximately 4 mm less high. I think it is also to stiff (hard). It cannot be modified without making it useless.

Can anyone with a rubber seal from TR Shop which is hopefully a better than mine (from another supplier) measure the height of the seal before I order one please?

Thanks,

Waldi

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Thanks Stef,

so the TR shop item is probably the same as mine, this saves me buying another one.

I will try to remove the outer and inner lip from the top-side, see how that works. If that does not work I may end up with a 7-8 mm height home made seal from cell foam.

 

@Roger,

If you read this, do you think raising a PQI item is helpfull? I do not know what the original item looked like, but can only assume it was much softer and/or lower.

Regards,

Waldi

 

 

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Hi Waldi,

 I'll check my two seals for depth.

They have always appeared to be too deep. However over time they do appear to squish down a touch. Both my 4 & 4A fit well (now). When I fitted them I place a very heavy weight on the lid for a couple of days. This allows the base of the seal to spread out (I think).

 

A PQI form may be needed. but!! (there is always a 'but'.  A NOS unfitted seal would be needed to compare to. I would assume all the suppliers use the same source.

Let me have a dig around and see what I find.

 

Roger

 

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Alright so for my rebuild I treated the vent lid:

1/ cut the inner and outer lips so it's 7 mm high;

2/ cut off the part of the seal that is under the hinge to make the vent lid sit flush with the scuttle top panel;

3/ ground the heads of the vent fixing screws and removed the washers so they don't fool the vent lid;

 4/ ground the forward edge of the hinge by 1 mm to prevent the rear of the vent lid from fooling the scuttle top panel.

Now it's good until it's back from the paint shop, then that will be another story I reckon.

Edited by Geko
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@Roger,

thanks, I will wait for your instructions:)

 

@Stef,

very good, you have done exactly what I did / thought what I still needed to do, very helpful.

I also noted the 3 screws with rings sit too high, and wondered what to do with the rubber flap under the hinge, as it would raise the lid above the deck.

Greetings from Holland to London and Malaisia.

Waldi

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Result!

Following the above points, the lid now opens and closes easy with the handle in the cabin.

I had to remove a lot (4-5 mm) from the top side of the seal. I used a piece of paper in the final stages between lid and seal to see where it was contacting. Used a dremel type grinder with a small gringding stone, dirty job and several hrs of work.

Fitted the return spring and lever only at the very end of the job. The lid is now nice and flush with the scuttle and bonnet.

Glad I did not have to do this as a professional, it would be 20 pound for parts and 200 for labor.

Waldi

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You must be more pedantic than I am, it took me 1/2 hour for the entire process. Cut the rubber with scissors. It might not be perfectly even but hey it's only a vent lid and I remembered Newton's law of gravitation whereby the water would spill downwards ;)

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3 hours ago, Geko said:

You must be more pedantic than I am,  ;)

Hi Stef,

I will ask her:)

Waldi

 

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Thanks Waldi, I will now do the same with my vent lid. It still has the closed cell rubber instead of the "proper" rubber (which as you experienced need much trimming). 

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You’re welcome.

By grinding off the top in small steps, you can have the lid sit flush with the scuttle, since it is firmly pressed down by the spring on both sides.

I started with cutting with a thin Stanley type knife, which was ok, but did not give an even surface.

Then tried an angle grinder, which wanted to “eat” the seal, so not recommended. The small dremel worked better.

Were a dust mask, the fine rubber gets everywhere. Best to do it outside.

Cheers,

Waldi

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I have what I believe to be a NOS rubber vent gasket,  tried it with the original lid and fit was perfect. 

One day I will get around to fitting it. 

If I can help with measurements I will dig it out. 

Mark 

For what it's worth i purchased a repo vent lid due to the hinge on original rusted and badly corroded, the difference in size was very noticeable when side by side. I was fortunate to find a complete hinge in excellent condition at Stoneleigh(thank you Conrad) which is now spot welded to original lid. 

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7 hours ago, Waldi said:

You’re welcome.

By grinding off the top in small steps, you can have the lid sit flush with the scuttle, since it is firmly pressed down by the spring on both sides.

I started with cutting with a thin Stanley type knife, which was ok, but did not give an even surface.

Then tried an angle grinder, which wanted to “eat” the seal, so not recommended. The small dremel worked better.

Were a dust mask, the fine rubber gets everywhere. Best to do it outside.

Cheers,

Waldi

Had the same issue when replacing the rubber on the vent lid of my 3A. Had to remember to open the lid every time I lifted  the bonnet otherwise it got scratched. Needless to say I forgot on occasions.. New rubber way too high. Cut down initially with a Stanley knife then sanded it down smooth after that. Didn't think of the Dremel!  Secured it in place with mastic to stop water coming in. As you say 2 hours + work. A pain.

Miles

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I wrote to Moss last year asking what the dog leg lever was and was told it was the vent flap arm. The car was using the rod grommet for the wiper washer hose! I drilled a new hole for the washer hose and found that after drilling the vent flap lever out to 3.5mm the rod could be fitted without any altering the shape. However the trunnion - part number AUE34 IS NOT the correct item for the over-sized lever supplied. I drilled a 3.5mm hole through a 1/4 UNF screw and clamped it to the arm but with loss of circular movement on the lever trunnion hole.

The lever will open/close the vent. I attach a couple of shots to try to show the bodge.

 

Best wishes    Willie

1. 3.5mm hole in qtr UNF screw.JPG

4. Rod clamped to lever using UNF screw_LI.jpg

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If you used a longer bolt with two more nuts, the bolt could still turn in the lever hole.

Bolt head / washer / hole for the pin / washer / nut  <-- these firmly tightened against each other. 

Then space for the lever and two nuts firmly tightened against each other. 

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