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Electronic Fuel Injection


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Hi Andreas

 

Thanks for the advice. I have today ordered a kit from Classic Car Injection. (spoke to them, very helpful.)

 

Will report back how I get on. Will be a few weeks.

 

Regards JohnR

 

Waiting with interest

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I have a Tr5 with Lucas and a road going F3 car with turbo and with Bosch jetronic.

Consider that my jetronic is now 30 years old and although its Bosch, its getting hard to find parts and qualified people now.

How will you be in 20 years time?

There is a nice 5 for sale now and a lot of people have turned away as its not original with efi.

I have been around Lucas for 48 years since my dad bought a TR6 new in 1970 which we still have and I live in the alps, its has never been a problem.

Ask yourself if it might be in 10 years time when you can longer get parts and an ECU especially if your traveling.

With the Lucas if you have a spare metering unit and an injector you can get most places and when you are at altitude you can hop out of the car and reset the tuning of the MU.

Just my thoughts.

Tony

Edited by Rem18
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With any modern EFI you are free to swap to another product.

The required data are all the same.

I started with MegaSquirt1, swapped to MegaSquirt2 that I can definitely

judge how much work must be done with that. Right now I set a MegaSquirt3

and all looks familiar. Nothing to worry about.

 

It is the other way round: Many EFI developers offer an adaptor plug

to remove original ECU and swap to MegaSquirt for example.

Ford Mustang, Range Rover and MAZDA MX5 are some of them.

 

I do not see a loss in value with EFI.

Everybody is free to store his original Lucas parts dry and clean

and go back to Lucas PI if required. So the buyer can choose what system

to fit but I am sure it will be EFI just from my experience with it.

 

The problem with original ECUs is that all is kept propriatory.

And even more they create checksums from the software to check

that you can not work on it with deep knowledge.

It is all a pain to adapt such a system for another cam or modified engine.

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Hi Guys

 

Have now received the EFI Kit. The ECU as come with the basic parameters load for the TR6. Have made a bracket to mount the Throttle Sensor. ( Throttle shaft is on 3 Flanged oilite bushes) Today have fitted the wiring loom so I can locate the various sensors. The ECU will be located above the passenger foot well.

 

Cannot make full strip down as I need the car on Sunday for car show.

 

First item to tackle is the Distributer so the base timing can be set before modifing the rest system.

 

Regards JohnR

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  • 2 months later...

Hi Guys

 

Here is an update on my conversion EFI.

 

Just completed 1450 mile tour to Ireland with an average fuel consumption of just over 31 mpg.

 

The tuning of the software ,with the help of Kevin at Classic Car Injection was pretty straight forward.

 

If anybody wishes to do this conversion, I can fully recommend this company.

 

Here are some pics.

 

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This wee mod will help alot if not usin multi wol types.

Even multi wol types tend t,squrt fuel in longer straight lines than the Lucas type

 

As alot of modern types squrt fuel direct at back of inlet valve, this is ok

but on our manis, it squrts it directly into mani walls at bottom

 

modd,n it like this, means its no far oft OE Lucas pattern

and really helped cold starts / running

so much so, I ended up tek,n quite a bit of fuel oot the start up parameters

 

 

M

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Edited by GT6M
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Hi Guys

 

Sorry the pics are upside down.

 

Also forgot to sign to reply.

 

Regards JohnR

 

Hi John,

 

Thanks for posting your experience of this kit, certainly food for thought.

 

I have a couple of questions..........

 

You mentioned in a previous post that you had to make a bracket, I assume to attach the throttle body to the Plenum. Is that because it wasn't supplied or because you weren't happy with the one supplied?

 

Additionally, looking at the parts list on their website, it doesn't mention the fuel rail. Did you have to make your own or do they actually supply one?

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Hi John

 

I also would like to know:

 

- how long did it take you to install / set up

- is it a matter of following instructions / bolting stuff together or does it require a more detailed knowledge of mechanics / electrics?

 

Thanks

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Hi Guys

 

Initially I was going to use the throttle bodies as they were. So made a bracket to mount the throttle sensor to the existing shaft.

But instead decided to use a single throttle body. A 52mm MGF bought on Ebay.

 

As per instructions the distributor is modified first so you can set static timing to 8deg.

 

Mounted the ECU under the bulkhead above the passengers feet.

 

Had the fuel rail made locally to dimensions I supplied.

 

Had an adaptor flange made to fix the throttle body.

 

Existing throttle bodies, throttle plates removed and shaft holes plugged , 1/2" holes for the Lucas Injectors drilled to 13.5mm dia.

 

The software as a self learn feature. With the help of Kevin at Classic Car Injection is understandable.

 

It took approx 2?3 weeks to complete

 

Regards JohnR

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Hi Guys

 

But instead decided to use a single throttle body. A 52mm MGF bought on Ebay.

 

Had the fuel rail made locally to dimensions I supplied.

 

Had an adaptor flange made to fix the throttle body.

 

Hi John,

 

Thanks for the clarification, it is really useful to get feedback on a system that isn't from the usual players.

 

However, from what you have said, the kit is not complete (enough) if someone wants to just 'plug and play'. You are essentially paying for the electronics plus a few key associated parts. On the other hand it is significantly cheaper than the Emerald offering so I guess you 'pays your money and makes your choice!

 

It seems to me that what you end up with is a bespoke version of something between the efi fitted to an 80's SAAB 900 Turbo and a 90's SAAB 9000, both of which I have investigated as an efi donor.

 

I suspect that the injectors are batch fired using the signal from the distributor (a la Saab 900) but there is a feedback loop from the wideband sensor that adjusts fuelling (a la SAAB9000).

 

I could be wrong, do you know if the injectors fire sequentially?

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Hi john, congratulation, clean work. Thanks' a lot for the information, I keep the idea to convert my TR6 PI CP '71 to EFI

Best regards

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Have to agree with Tony here guys. Why? Yes I have viewed many EFI systems and talked to a good few owners who have done so but I find the Lucas system perfectly adequate and it keeps the character of the car correct.

Once you have the Lucas Pi set up correctly, and its not rocket science after all, its a forget it system.

 

Alan G

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I agree with Allan. The Lucas PI system is very good when it's set up properly.

 

I had a lot of problems starting and driving the car until I found a technician with the knowledge and calibration equipment to set the Lucas system up properly.

 

When the Lucas PI was finally working correctly the car was totally transformed. Easy to start, plenty of power and moderate fuel consumption- and it seems to be staying that way.

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I like the Lucas PI system too but I've experienced an EFi converted TR5 and a TR6. Both gave substantial improvements in fuel economy and driveability (by which I mean the engine's response at any part of the rpm range and throttle opening).

 

That said, I'm going to keep the Lucas PI on my TR6 because I like the system and enjoy keeping it working properly. It's a piece of Sixties automotive history that's worth preserving in my opinion. However, I'm thinking seriously about an EFi conversion for one of my carb-fuelled classics, probably the Scimitar GTE.

 

 

Nigel

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I'm glad to read there is some support out there for Lucas PI, after all it was good enough for Maserati and early Cosworth DFV engines!!

 

To my mind, its part of the essential TR6 core character and I'm committed to live with it a while longer yet.

And BRM as well as Coventry Climax:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjmwpaJw8ndAhUOFogKHaHoAxcQFjALegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.motorsportmagazine.com%2Farchive%2Farticle%2Fdecember-2000%2F39%2Flucas-fuel-injection&usg=AOvVaw1yN2AvARdBabJ_t42nDKWy

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I don't think this thread was titled 'why shouldn't I fit efi'

 

Some people are happy with PI, some retrofit SUs and Webers and some want to go the efi route. It takes all sorts and there is room here for all of us. Personally, I haven't made up my mind yet but it will be my decision for my car.

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On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 1:23 PM, Ragtag said:

I don't think this thread was titled 'why shouldn't I fit efi'

 

Some people are happy with PI, some retrofit SUs and Webers and some want to go the efi route. It takes all sorts and there is room here for all of us. Personally, I haven't made up my mind yet but it will be my decision for my car.

My apologies to Ragtag - I'm new to the forum and a bit nervous of making a post.  I ought to have written that it's very interesting to read about the various EFi conversions and I really admire the results some members have achieved.  I have seriously considered this mod over the last few years but have decided to stick with PI for the time being. 

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2 hours ago, bob buzzard said:

My apologies to Ragtag - I'm new to the forum and a bit nervous of making a post.  I ought to have written that it's very interesting to read about the various EFi conversions and I really admire the results some members have achieved.  I have seriously considered this mod over the last few years but have decided to stick with PI for the time being. 

Hi Bob,

My post wasn't aimed specifically at you but it was meant to be a bit of banter, I thought I put a smiley face on it. 

Please don't be nervous about posting, mostly, we are a friendly bunch.

 

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A good working PI is not an indication to swap to EFI.

Anyway there are a lot of improvements with EFI what the PI drivers must admit. First for me is the high altitude compensation as I am used to drive over the Alps once a year.

 

Second is the individual mapping where you set the EFI lean for cruising and rich under full load when needed. Aim is power and economy.

 

Third is the missing acceleration enrichment of the PI. It must be kept a little bit rich to avoid hickups but still a heavy leaning can be watched when pedal is presssed down.

 

Fourth is the missing part throttle ignition advance that makes engine crispy and saves fuel.

 

Fifth is the missing air temperature and pressure correction in daily use. Also the fuel temperature is not taken into account. Although some of these influences might compensate against each other they reduce significantly power or rise fuel consumption.

 

All in all I can make close to 500 Km with one fuel tank. No need to keep fuel in tank to avoid bubbles at the pump. I can take all out of the tank and there is no hickup on left corners at that state. Performance is on the level of the best and richest set PI systems.

All in all the EFI car is much more reliable and fuel saving but keeps all a good PI can offer.

 

If there is a carb version I would do nothing else but a swap to EFI.

If there is a Weber DCOE or a PI its individual choice if a swap makes sense.

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  • 1 year later...

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