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tr4 gearbox fault finding

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#1 Willie

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 11:42 AM

Hi folks,

                Gutted not to be out & about in S Wales tomorrow. Reason?  My TR4 has received a gearbox overhaul and new clutch cover, plate, and release bearing & carrier.  Just about got everything back when my mate suggests we check all is well.  With engine off, all gears are smoothly accessed. Engine running,  blah, blah, can't get it into gear!  Pump & pump the clutch pedal, and eventually it just about gets drive.  Evidence of serious wear on clutch pedal pivot, and bad grooving on the cotter pin connecting the pedal to master cylinder.  Tried altering cross shaft arm to top hole but no real difference.  As I write this, we decided to order new master & slave cylinders to complete the overhaul, but can anyone give me an opinion on what the trouble might be?  Hoping desperately that the transmission doesn't need to come out again.  As an extra from a previous post, does the assembly pictured indicate the TT1032 rear engine seal is fitted?  I also enc pic of the pedal and cotter pin which has grooved in a mere 3 years or so.

 

Best wishes     Willie

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#2 stuart

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 12:13 PM

I take it you cross pinned the actuating fork to the cross shaft whilst the box was out? The hole in the clutch pedal seems to be worn oval as well as the fork on the master cylinder and the clevis pin, adding all them together will probably lose you a lot of actuation before you start. Have you checked the same parts on the slave cylinder too?

Stuart.


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#3 Willie

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 12:59 PM

Hi Stuart, yes the pin has been wired in. A new one. The one removed was OK, but the release bearing was in a poor condition and the sleeve worn. The old bearing has a plastic ring in the centre. The old sleeve is possibly older than the bearing. Pic of old brg attached.  Now waiting for new master & slave cylinders to arrive from Moss along with new adjuster pin for slave cylinder.  Do you think all this extra will get the gears selectable under load?  Also, pic of new set up with wire holding the pin.

 

Can you answer the Q ref the rear crank oil seal type?

 

Best wishes     Willie

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#4 Willie

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 01:12 PM

Pedal hole has been reprofiled with a spot of weld.  Further pic attached. Paint still drying!!

 

Best wishes     Willie

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#5 stuart

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 01:34 PM

Hi Stuart, yes the pin has been wired in. A new one. The one removed was OK, but the release bearing was in a poor condition and the sleeve worn. The old bearing has a plastic ring in the centre. The old sleeve is possibly older than the bearing. Pic of old brg attached.  Now waiting for new master & slave cylinders to arrive from Moss along with new adjuster pin for slave cylinder.  Do you think all this extra will get the gears selectable under load?  Also, pic of new set up with wire holding the pin.

 

Can you answer the Q ref the rear crank oil seal type?

 

Best wishes     Willie

Unfortunately just wiring the bolt doesnt help if it decides to shear, should be OK as its new but its always a good idea to cross pin as well.The seal does look like it maybe the Landrover type FWIW.

Picture attached you can just see the 6mm pin in the centre of the fork.

Stuart.

Attached File  Marks TR5 683.jpg   140.77KB   4 downloads


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#6 RogerH

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 01:50 PM

Hi Willie,

          the seal does look like the Moss TT1032.

 

I assume this is the same as the Chris Marx seal and not the Bastuck item

 

This is my CM seal

 

Roger

 

Attached File  P1040461a.jpg   72.41KB   8 downloads


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Time is a drug - Too much will kill you
Forgive your enemy, but remember the ass-hole's name.
never surrender, never give up and always balance your butterflies

Veni Vidi Flati
TR4A - July 1967 daily driver         2010 RBRR No.22  2014 RBRR No.69
TR4 - March 1962 transforming like the proverbial caterpillar - it's now Royal Blue and now with the chromy bits.
 
 
 
 
 

#7 Willie

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 02:13 PM

Hi Roger. We decided to leave the seal alone as there was no sign of oil contamination in the bell housing.  Concern now is over the inability to select gears!!  Stuart's reply above gives me a glimmer of hope that the box won't need to be removed again.  It's taken over 2 days as it is!!  I just pray that changing the clutch cylinders with the repaired pedal will do the job.  There was a grumble audible in neutral when the engine was running. Hopefully just new parts greeting the old ones!!  The shafts turned very easily before we put the top plate on.

 

Best wishes    John


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#8 RogerH

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 02:20 PM

Hi John,

             the worn pins are enough to cause problems.

Did you have the slave cylinder attached to the middle hole on the cross shaft drop arm.

 

The standard taper in on the cross shaft should last quite a while but given time it will break. You will notice the pedal closer to the floor.

 

If ever you take the box out make sure you either pop in  across pin/bolt/etc - there are other ways but the roll pin is the easiest solution.

 

Roger


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Time is a drug - Too much will kill you
Forgive your enemy, but remember the ass-hole's name.
never surrender, never give up and always balance your butterflies

Veni Vidi Flati
TR4A - July 1967 daily driver         2010 RBRR No.22  2014 RBRR No.69
TR4 - March 1962 transforming like the proverbial caterpillar - it's now Royal Blue and now with the chromy bits.
 
 
 
 
 

#9 stillp

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 02:22 PM

 

 

This is my CM seal

 

Roger

 

attachicon.gifP1040461a.jpg

Funny place to mount it!

 

Pete


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#10 Willie

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 02:46 PM

Thanks Roger. YES, the slave was on the centre hole and it will be put back there once the new parts are installed.  Then hopefully beastie will be back on the road!!

 

Many thanks to you and Stuart for the usual very helpful responses.

 

Best wishes     Willie


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#11 RogerH

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 03:14 PM

Funny place to mount it!

 

Pete

Hi Pete,

               at the cost of the thing it is toooooo expensive to hide away behind the flywheel.

 

Roger


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Time is a drug - Too much will kill you
Forgive your enemy, but remember the ass-hole's name.
never surrender, never give up and always balance your butterflies

Veni Vidi Flati
TR4A - July 1967 daily driver         2010 RBRR No.22  2014 RBRR No.69
TR4 - March 1962 transforming like the proverbial caterpillar - it's now Royal Blue and now with the chromy bits.
 
 
 
 
 

#12 stuart

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 03:28 PM

I thought the TT1032 was the Landrover version?

Stuart.


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#13 stillp

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 03:54 PM

Hi Pete,

               at the cost of the thing it is toooooo expensive to hide away behind the flywheel.

 

Roger

:D  :D  :D  :D


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#14 RogerH

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 04:01 PM

Hi Stuart,

                this is the Moss page showing the various seals

The 837-006 requires the scroll removing https://www.moss-eur...kits-51863.html

 

The TT1032 looks like the Chris Marx seal.

 

Roger


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Time is a drug - Too much will kill you
Forgive your enemy, but remember the ass-hole's name.
never surrender, never give up and always balance your butterflies

Veni Vidi Flati
TR4A - July 1967 daily driver         2010 RBRR No.22  2014 RBRR No.69
TR4 - March 1962 transforming like the proverbial caterpillar - it's now Royal Blue and now with the chromy bits.
 
 
 
 
 

#15 graeme

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 04:15 PM

Willie,

 

The release brg in your picture looks like it has a flat face. If it is, I think this is wrong. Have a look at Stuart's photo for the correct shape.

 

Rubbish, I think that is just the difference between TR4 & TR4A.

 

 

Cheers

Graeme


Edited by graeme, 09 June 2018 - 04:21 PM.

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#16 Richardtr3a

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 05:10 PM

I found that the best answer to the hydraulic problems was to have my original master and slave overhauled by Past Parts with their seals. The flexible that joins the slave to the hydraulic needs a copper washer at the slave end. My 3a leaked at that point and I had to drive over 100 miles with no clutch.

 

The new cylinders that I bought were rubbish after 6 months. Past Parts cylinders have been trouble free for years.

 

i also had the wrong push rod on the slave for a long time.

 

good luck  Richard


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#17 Willie

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 05:31 PM

Thanks for that Richard.  Looking at Graeme's crossed out comment ref the release brg, mine has been installed with the flat face facing outwards from the bellhousing. Will this be a problem?  See my pic in #3 post.

 

Willie


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#18 peejay4A

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 07:37 PM

I thought that looked a bit strange. It is a thrust bearing so if fitted backwards it is likely to fail if it works properly at all.
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Pete 

#19 Willie

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 08:34 PM

Hi Pete, I was afraid of that. Hopefully we can just separate the engine from bellhousing in the car for such a quick job.  I wonder if that is the cause of the grumble when the engine was running but in neutral?

 

Best wishes    Willie


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#20 peejay4A

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 08:41 PM

It might be. Do you have the external return spring and adjustable pushrod?
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Pete 





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