simonjrwinter Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 Here we go again. Less than a year after installing my reconditioned diff, its started whing again. I was supplied a reconditioned Diff last year after a 10 month wait and an £800 bill by a self-proclaimed expert with promises of a silent leak-free diff. To be fair, the diff wept as soon as I installed it and there was a small whine from day one but its getting worse and Ive only done about 200 miles. Despite promises of a guarantee on the diff, theres no way Im sending it back to France (or wherever the hell this bodge artist is living now) so Ive got to sort it myself. Has anyone any experience of these oil additives that are supposed to quieten diffs or gearboxes? Simon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 Hi Simon Sorry to hear your diff is whinning after £800 and 200 hundred miles I think I would be a bit more than peed off. Trying to reduce the noise with additive is simply masking the issue that the diff hasn't being sorted out in the first place and there is still a mechanical issue to resolve. May well have been filled last time round thick oil and even the old trick of using saw dust to give the impression of a repair given the whine was still there to a degree from the off. I'd wait to see if someone can recommend a decent UK repairer near you or point you towards a good secondhand unit. Best of luck Andy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
simonjrwinter Posted June 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) To be honest, Im happy to mask it if itll last me another year or so. Just as long as I dont have to take the bloody thing out again! Edited June 4, 2018 by simonjrwinter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 When I was a lot younger dodgy dealers would use steam engine oil to quieten a noisy diff , but for long term it does not have the EP properties needed for sliding gear surfaces, such as in a diff. Maybe an industrial EP gear oil will be worth a look, such as these: https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiBpNHy-7rbAhVEV7wKHcz8BpsQFgh7MAc&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gulfwestern.com.au%2Fproduct%2Findustrial-gear-oil-range%2F&usg=AOvVaw1lxRW839DJySRR-Veky_8t Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TriumphV8 Posted June 5, 2018 Report Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) Unfortunately you did not say if GT was the expert. If so I would expect that he did not have the tools to give the diff the preload in the two required places. The V8 applies much more power to the diff so it must be sure that crown wheel and pinon keep exactely in the proper position under this heavy load. That is the job of the preoad! Sorry to say but applying power to a diff without the correct preload and without a proper setting starts a somewhat grinding at CWP. The reason is simply that both mating surfaces do not match and instead a load spread of a larger surface you have a havy load on a line just similar to makin a scratch with a sharp edge of a screwdriver. Keep in mind that all in the drivetrain of the TR6 is at the limit if you go for V8 power. What a carb TR6 will tolerate for some years will ruin a V8 within miles. It must be made from superior quality! My recommendation is not to reuse the CWP although it was expensive. What about asking Mike Papworth for help? Edited June 5, 2018 by TriumphV8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
simonjrwinter Posted June 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2018 Andreas, The V8 in my car is nowhere near a powerful as yours. In fact I’d be surprised if it was significantly more powerful than the standard engine. Added to that, I don’t think I’ve driven it hard once since the Diff was installed (I mostly drive with my wife in the car with me!) The whine is nowhere near as bad as the original “rebuilt” Diff but it’s worse than it was when I installed it and Ideally Id like to stop it getting any worse (ignore my previous comment about quietening it rather than fixing it, I was a bit pee’d off with it) I’ll try and find a local specialist I can take it to. Simon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted June 5, 2018 Report Share Posted June 5, 2018 Andreas, The V8 in my car is nowhere near a powerful as yours. In fact I’d be surprised if it was significantly more powerful than the standard engine. Added to that, I don’t think I’ve driven it hard once since the Diff was installed (I mostly drive with my wife in the car with me!) The whine is nowhere near as bad as the original “rebuilt” Diff but it’s worse than it was when I installed it and Ideally Id like to stop it getting any worse (ignore my previous comment about quietening it rather than fixing it, I was a bit pee’d off with it) I’ll try and find a local specialist I can take it to. Simon I used Hardy Engineering Ltd in Leatherhead, I would highly recommend them. Give Bill a ring and talk it over with him. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted June 5, 2018 Report Share Posted June 5, 2018 I used Hardy Engineering Ltd in Leatherhead, I would highly recommend them. Give Bill a ring and talk it over with him. +1 for Hardy engineering. Bruce Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TriumphV8 Posted June 5, 2018 Report Share Posted June 5, 2018 Andreas, The V8 in my car is nowhere near a powerful as yours. I’ll try and find a local specialist I can take it to. Simon It is the torque that kills the diff and we have a lot more than the original. Just the one litre more displacement plays a heavy role. In the 80 I was running the 3.5 with a crane sports cam. Just with that I had to change the universal joints of the drive shafts every year. I loved to accelerate in 2nd where the TR6 lays down on the bump stops and what a normal TR6 does for a moment in 1st a V8 does for many seconds even in 3rd. Only a perfect diff and fresh mounting areas at the frame can handle that power without doing some harm. The hints with local specialists will help. Although I also do not have a fully quiet diff what I prepared by myself my CWP is the same for many, many years and with top down there is no noise to be noticed. So a specialist definitely will prepare a diff that lasts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 8, 2018 Report Share Posted June 8, 2018 Hi Simon, oil or additives will not help you. If you want to get rid of the whine then drop the diff and take it to Hardy engineering In Leatherhead as suggested above. My diff was not quite whining but a serious hum and leaked like a sieve. When I reinstalled it after Hardy's had weaved their magic it was a totally different lump. All new seals, bearings and cuddles. £520 inc vat. No humming and no leaking and it feels great. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel A Posted June 8, 2018 Report Share Posted June 8, 2018 Crown Classics recently did mine and it is perfect Cheers Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
simonjrwinter Posted June 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2018 Thanks gents. After already laying out £800+ I’m seeing what my options are.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tim D. Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 As you may know in the bad old days when lotus were just starting out they decided to use a combination of crown wheel and pinion that we not perfectly matched. To "run them in" they used to fill the diff with metal polish and run then until they mad less noise. I am NOT recommending that you do this! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 As you may know in the bad old days when lotus were just starting out they decided to use a combination of crown wheel and pinion that we not perfectly matched. To "run them in" they used to fill the diff with metal polish and run then until they mad less noise. I am NOT recommending that you do this! And consumer protection laws have consigned the old dealer's trick of adding sawdust/banana peels to the diff to history. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TriumphV8 Posted June 11, 2018 Report Share Posted June 11, 2018 Thanks gents. After already laying out £800+ I’m seeing what my options are.... It is more or less all hanging at the question if CWP is alredy damaged and if where to get a good fresh one. I recently got a nice new pair at 130 GBP. Some are offered in the range up to 600GBP. If the job is done with a proper setting it will be a 3 hours job. If CWP is okay and you have an expert to judge that correctly it is not much money to be added. (Although a humming diff getting louder often is a bad indication) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GT6M Posted June 12, 2018 Report Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) Tek diff out, and blue it up,turn it owa with NO LOAD on it at all. tek some pics. then blue it agen, drive side and coast, apply some resistance, a chisel between case an CW,so its v v tight t,turn. so tight, it,ll need ye to pull a funny face, and also some serious grunting wont go amiss either, as this,l show yer actually trying hard, its gotta be like this,or its a waste of time. its amazing hoo much a pattern can change turn it over quite a few times,till there a good pattern showing, take some pics ,then, bung em up here,let a few of us see em, then meb,e we can point ye in right direction, it wont be too hard to alter things a wee bit, but as said,if the CW/P is wearing,ye aint got much hope of a quieter diff. butt,could be altered a wee bit. and,the longer ye put it off, the moer chance it,ll never be able t,get made good agen M Edited June 12, 2018 by GT6M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
michaeldavis39 Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) So a refurbed TR diff that was originally designed to run in a 100bhp TR6 has been installed into a TR6 with a Rover V8 engine and it's whining? Maybe I'm missing something here but was the refurbisher told it was going to be used on a Rover V8? Thought common sense would say you need to use a LSD with that engine which no one on here has mentioned. Sounds to me like someone is being a cheapskate on this one but then we've only heard one side of this story too haven't we folks- just saying- there are always two sides to every story and I believe it would be fair to hear what the refurbisher has to say instead of slagging him off when he hasn't had chance to defend himself! Edited June 18, 2018 by michaeldavis39 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 Does this mean that we are going to hear from GT? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
simonjrwinter Posted June 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 Michael, The rover v8 I have in my car is no more powerful than a standard TR6 ( and certainly faaaaar less than some of the tuned 6’s on here)yes the refurbisher (Gareth Thomas) was told it was in a car with a V8 before I even ordered it from him. He told me it would take all the power I could throw at it and certainly far more than I have. The car had the original 1971 Diff in it and has been fitted with the same Diff even though it was converted to a V8 in 1982! I only took out the original Diff in 2016 after it started to weep oil. Cheap skate....you having a laugh? I’ve paid over £800 and waited 10 months for Mr Thomas to build the “silent, leak free Diff” he promised, having to constantly nag and nag and getting nothing but abuse for my troubles. When it arrived ( in a cardboard box!) It seeped oil and whined from day one. Sending it back wasn’t an option as I will NEVER HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIM AGAIN. I understand that GT has been banned from posting here ( I wish I’d heard of his reputation BEFORE I sent him my money) so I doubt you’ll get a reply on here. If you manage to contact him, let me know, I have pages and pages of email excuses he sent me that I can share with you. Simon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
simonjrwinter Posted June 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 Or you could try the Jaguar forums....( oh wait, he’s banned from all of those too) Simon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TriumphV8 Posted June 19, 2018 Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) So a refurbed TR diff that was originally designed to run in a 100bhp TR6 has been installed into a TR6 with a Rover V8 engine and it's whining? Maybe I'm missing something here but was the refurbisher told it was going to be used on a Rover V8? Thought common sense would say you need to use a LSD with that engine which no one on here has mentioned. Sounds to me like someone is being a cheapskate on this one but then we've only heard one side of this story too haven't we folks- just saying- there are always two sides to every story and I believe it would be fair to hear what the refurbisher has to say instead of slagging him off when he hasn't had chance to defend himself! I have the original TR6 diff with 3.45:1 in my TR6 V8 Mine is running for several years without complains. It was simply refurbished with proper setting and required preload. LSD has nothing to do with whining and failing of the diff. That is simply a add on inside the crownwheel and does not affect the CWP playing together (or playing not like Simons) It is simply that somebody living an old Jaguar has not the necessary tooling to set and check the required setting of CWP and the preload on pinion AND diff casing. If you think that to the end that the applied power must be quoted it would mean that the refurbisher can do lazy work on a diff for a low power engine and only on a performance engine will do the perfect quality work. -I can not agree to that- Definitely todays CWP became better quality with the new Qerlikon theeth that keep more teeth from CWP together working at one time (mehr Zähne parallel im Eingriff) So the load is devided on a larger surface what keeps the load in acceptable limits. Only complain is that my matched sets always required a lot of play posted on the paper coming with them and really in practice needed that setting to get a proper imprint in the middle of the tooth. Edited June 19, 2018 by TriumphV8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
michaeldavis39 Posted June 19, 2018 Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) I can't think now why Ford went to the trouble of fitting a LSD in the Capri 2.8ltr??? Edited June 19, 2018 by michaeldavis39 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted June 19, 2018 Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) I can't think now why Ford went to the trouble of fitting a LSD in the Capri 2.8ltr???To try and balance the handling of the car, the Capri is front heavy and spinning the rear wheels easy, also having an LSD gives understeer which again helps neutralise the handling balance of the car against the inherent oversteer from lack of grip on the rear axle. It's what manufacturers do, understeer is good for the buying public, easier handling, oversteer is good for car repair shops, more accidents, Mick Richards Edited June 19, 2018 by Motorsport Mickey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.