Health and Safety strikes again

[stuart]

For those of you who would have liked to see me do my usual lead filling demo at this years TR International Im afraid your going to be disappointed as the HSE have decreed it dangerous due to a naked flame being used to melt the lead.The room that I had to use the last time (ground floor for safety unlike the 1st floor that everyone else used for their demos) is required for the trade show to do with the Pistons in the park that are sharing the show with us. Sorry chaps thats the end of that now.

Stuart.

[Lebro]

You will just have to demonstrate something else then ! dog grooming perhaps

 

Bob.

[TR5tar]

How ridiculous does it get?

[RogerH]

The club goes from bad to worse.

 

Why not get rid of the content of the TRR and simply keep the name. Then we could tag anybodies bits to it except ours.

 

very sad.

 

Roger

[cvtrian]

Another very popular IWE attraction bites the dust!

 

Stuart demonstrated his skills in a wooden shed at Malvern, all properly risk assessed of course (by me). For those suffering withdrawal symptoms, you can watch his demo on the TR Register website, at a time when seminars were properly recorded, edited, and made available for all to benefit. (I see Practical Classics have recognised a great idea and copied it with Skillshack), another TR Register first copied.................

 

Along with the demise of the bring and buy, these popular events are slowly fading away................... A shame really as the B&B raised around £20k over the years towards the upkeep of TS2.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with and fully support the new format at Lincoln, well worth trying, but babies and bathwater spring to my mind

 

Ian

[Drewmotty]

Could it be done outside?.....weather permitting.

[RobH]

Is it really the HSE who have deemed this dangerous ? I doubt it as they usually don't get involved in making assessments. They just publish and police the regulations and codes of practice.

The concern about lead is nothing new - the Code of Practice for lead work under the CLAW regulations (control of lead at work) has been out since 2002 when the regulations were put in place.

[AndrewMAshton]

Hello, had a bit to do with H&S in my last real job, in my experience it's not the rules that are the problem, usually quite reasonable, it is the interpretation and application of the rules that creates issues, cheers, Andrew

[rcreweread]

I bet the ars---e who made this decision flies in planes - they sometimes crash but that doesn't prevent people flying but I bet he does - if so, he's a hypochrite and a big one at that - in my experience, people are too frightened to challenge these type of people - H
& S is not about removing risk entirely, its about managing it REASONABLY.

 

So how is there a risk if someones stands next to Stuart with a fire extinguisher

 

Give me strength = some one for christ sakes challenge this and identify who made the decision

 

An angry forumite

[stillp]

I pity the HSE, who get blamed for all sorts of stupid decisions that are not theirs.

 

Pete

[barkerwilliams]

If naked flames are banned, then thats the end of the barbecues, and don't ask about candles.

 

Alan

[John Morrison]

Alan - candles? I know a rime about candles!

 

Stewart thats crap, You convinced me to have a go, and made my door absolutely perfect.

Big shame others won't get the chance.

 

John.

[Hamish]

It could of course be a venue restriction.

That has just cited H & S.

This automatically gets transposed to HSE. In some ears.

 

Otherwise just draw up a risk assessment to address the risks to the audience from heat related and lead fume emissions risks.

 

Very short term exposure should cover most of it !!!

[wheeler]

Stuart would it be possible to do the demo in the open - weather permitting?

[stuart]

The last time we were there the fire officer had to be very closely in attendance with his extinguisher at the ready as they were very nervous about any naked flames (no mention of fumes though) and it appears that there isnt another building suitable as the Pistons in the Park show has taken them all hence why Pride of ownership cars will apparently have to be parked outside also.

As too doing the demo outside I have done it a couple of times before at the IOW Triumph weekend and also at one TSCC International where I put some hinge plinths on a TR3a bonnet for Neil, neither of which was ideal but it only takes a bit of breeze for it to become a very difficult exercise indeed and also for people to be able to see and hear what I am doing with all the usual noise going on so Im afraid it looks like its not going to happen.

It is a shame as its a dying art and I do like to be able to pass the skill on.

Stuart.

[nowtelse2do]

 

It is a shame as its a dying art and I do like to be able to pass the skill on.

Stuart.

 

If you had the time Stuart, could you video it so it could be downloaded. There would be cost's involved I know.

 

Dave

[RUBY131]

+1 Dave. Maybe you could do a video Stuart and put it on U tube or something similar.. It is a dying art as you say and for me it was one of the most satisfying jobs I had to do when in the bodyshop and restoration business. I did a small repair last year and used an electric heat gun which worked fine but was very slow and not as controllable as a flame but it worrked. Chris.

[RogerH]

Hi Dave,

already done https://www.tr-registershop.co.uk/lead-loading-dvd-2118-p.asp

 

Roger

[nowtelse2do]

The week is starting good Roger, I get the name of the song and a link for Stuarts CD.....Think i'll buy a lottery ticket. Are they still a £1? might get two if they are.

 

Dave

[RogerH]

Hi Dave,

I think you wll find they are a little more than that

 

Roger

[nowtelse2do]

Sounds like a bit of inflation...a £1 coin = 100pence, I think we should go back to the old £1 = £2 - 3s - 4d which = 240pence, much better value.

 

Dave

[Tom Boyd]

The last time we were there the fire officer had to be very closely in attendance with his extinguisher at the ready as they were very nervous about any naked flames (no mention of fumes though) and it appears that there isnt another building suitable as the Pistons in the Park show has taken them all hence why Pride of ownership cars will apparently have to be parked outside also.

As too doing the demo outside I have done it a couple of times before at the IOW Triumph weekend and also at one TSCC International where I put some hinge plinths on a TR3a bonnet for Neil, neither of which was ideal but it only takes a bit of breeze for it to become a very difficult exercise indeed and also for people to be able to see and hear what I am doing with all the usual noise going on so Im afraid it looks like its not going to happen.

It is a shame as its a dying art and I do like to be able to pass the skill on.

Stuart.

It’s a massive shame that due to H&S you cannot show off your skills.

 

It sure is a dying trade, one I was taught many moons ago and I teach the new class joining us at work.

 

The pride of ownership was outside last time at Lincoln, luckily the sun was shining

[stillp]

It’s a massive shame that due to H&S you cannot show off your skills.

 

 

It's an even greater shame that H & S gets the blame for a lack of competence in risk management. I guess whoever is responsible for this doesn't understand lead loading, but knows it involves lead and a flame, so banning it is easier than managing the risks.

 

Pete

[MikeF]

I doubt there has been a proper risk assessment,

There is unlikely to be lead fume, it would require much higher temperatures than the procedure requires. Fume will be flux volatiles and flux breakdown products. Actually unless the lead has been incorporated into complex organic products (historic paint and plastics, leaded petrol) it is not that easy to get lead poisoning.

Poor personal hygiene after handling lead alloys especially in powder form (as in the tinning paste) is a potential hazard for operators. In this case Stuart.

The flux is also a handling hazard as it is quite corrosive = procedure and PPE.

Fume can be handled by local extraction.

Naked flame can be handled by PPE, attention to proximity of combustible products in work area and suitable extinguishers etc,

 

Unfortunately just mentioning lead usually provokes an emotive response and people tend to react as if its on a par with cyanide, nerve gas etc. Naked flame is in similar zone. THis is possibly what's happened here, whoever made the original call likely just gave a knee jerk NO. Of course equally it might be that the available room/building is unsuitable ie not a work shop area.

 

It;s probably worth appealing the decision, asking to see the risk assessment and seeing if there are any addressable concerns.

 

MIke

Edited May 28, 2018 by MikeF