iani Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 I paid a hefty invoice this evening to get my car back after a clutch change and an engine swap. The engine came out of a fire damaged car so I knew there might be issues although it looked to be in good nick. The garage is a a Triumph specialist but they don't do many TR's, part of the job was refitting newly reconditioned PI equipment. On driving away, the car was popping & farting a lot, rather like a souped up Saxo, it was noisier than before as it now has a phoenix manifold & single silencer exhaust, but I don't think the popping is normal. I drove home around 20 miles, as I neared home, it felt like the car was running on three cylinders. When I parked up and opened the bonnet, the engine was covered in oil, a lot of oil, on investigation, the garage had fitted the rocker cover without a gasket, this engine has an external oil feed so the leakage was very bad (I know about the external feed issues, the head oilway is blocked so no choice). I have left the garage a voicemail, let's see what tomorrow brings. Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 Hope the oil pressure was OK all the way home. Is the oil level visible on the dipstick? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted May 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 Hope the oil pressure was OK all the way home. Is the oil level visible on the dipstick? There was no oil on the dipstick at all, I put some in to help cool things down and it sounded like it was hitting a dry sump. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaveN Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 ‘Triumph Specialist’?? How do you know for certain the head oilway is blocked? Did they not run it and check for leaks? I think you should tell them to come and collect it and sort it out, after all you’ve paid a hefty amount of coin of the realm. Oh and if I was you I’d ask....no demand the old engine back! Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted May 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 ‘Triumph Specialist’?? How do you know for certain the head oilway is blocked? Did they not run it and check for leaks? I think you should tell them to come and collect it and sort it out, after all you’ve paid a hefty amount of coin of the realm. Oh and if I was you I’d ask....no demand the old engine back! Dave The replacement engine was a used one Dave, on firing it up they observed that there was no oil getting through to the rockers, hence the use of the external feed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John L Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 I think the popping and banging will be the metering unit setup for a std car, running very weak, with a phoenix manifold and a straight thru exhaust you will have a much higher inlet manifold vacuum. You will need to find out what the vacuum is so that the metering unit can be setup for that vacuum, you need to contact Neil Ferguson on here to get it setup correctly, he may be able to talk you thru what you need to know. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 Let's hope if didn't run dry of oil - if it has the crank bearings and various other internals will be shot. Did you see if the oil pressure had dropped on the drive home? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 I think the popping and banging will be the metering unit setup for a std car, running very weak, with a phoenix manifold and a straight thru exhaust you will have a much higher inlet manifold vacuum. You will need to find out what the vacuum is so that the metering unit can be setup for that vacuum, you need to contact Neil Ferguson on here to get it setup correctly, he may be able to talk you thru what you need to know. John A simple exhaust & manifold change is unlikely to have altered the inlet manifold pressures to the extent that the metering unit needs adjusting. By and large adjustments are not absolutely necessary until you add in gas flowed head and fast road or 3/4 race cam spec. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted May 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 Let's hope if didn't run dry of oil - if it has the crank bearings and various other internals will be shot. Did you see if the oil pressure had dropped on the drive home? The pressure dropped from 80 psi cold to 50 psi hot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted May 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 A simple exhaust & manifold change is unlikely to have altered the inlet manifold pressures to the extent that the metering unit needs adjusting. By and large adjustments are not absolutely necessary until you add in gas flowed head and fast road or 3/4 race cam spec. The spec’ of the engine is unknown, however, I am told that the rotating assembly all appears to have been balanced and there is a vernier cam pulley, this suggests that the head might well have had some work too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McCormack Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 The pressure dropped from 80 psi cold to 50 psi hot if the oil pressure stayed around there the engine is going to be ok. A TR6 engine holds a lot of oil and it isn't likely it lost all of it through the rocker cover/head joint unless you drove a long long way. The engine would have been quite rattley before it ran out of oil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 (edited) I would call the garage, tell them of your experience, in particular the missing rocker cover gasket, and ask them to collect the car and finish the job you have paid them to do. I would also send a letter, registered, and put a stop on any cheque or card transaction. Tell the garage this is what you are going to do. I think 50 psi hot is normal for a 6 engine. AlanR Edited May 22, 2018 by TR 2100 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 Wonder how they got the engine running and tuned without noticing a fairly major oil leak. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted May 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 Garage are collecting the car this afternoon, their apprentice has admitted to not fitting the gasket, I’ll see how things develop. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewP Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 "they observed that there was no oil getting through to the rockers, hence the use of the external feed" If this is true....? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John L Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 A simple exhaust & manifold change is unlikely to have altered the inlet manifold pressures to the extent that the metering unit needs adjusting. By and large adjustments are not absolutely necessary until you add in gas flowed head and fast road or 3/4 race cam spec. Andy I think you are totally wrong, I'm going on my experience with this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 (edited) "No oil getting through the the rockers" It takes a while for the low flow that a Triumph engine needs to show, and a blocked internal feed can only be due to previous gross neglect that leads to the Black Gunge inside the engine, or else deliberate blockage, as is sometimes done if the owner wants to fit an external. I'd say that the garage, expecting the high pressure and flow of a modern, didn't run the engine for long enough, and took the Purple Path to Hell, that is Ye Spawnne of Ye Deville, the external oil line. If there was Black Gunge in the engine then it should have been completely stripped, cleaned and all the oil ways run through with barrel brushes. The oilway to the rocker bar isn't straight, three linking drillings, but there is access to all three, and a simply pushing a hosepipe to one end will prove continuity. Do you know the history of the fire-damaged engine donor? Did that have an external oil line? JOhn PS Remove that external if at all possible! It starves the mains and big ends! Edited May 22, 2018 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tim D. Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 Agree with others. Oil flow to the top of the TR engine is less a gush and more a very slight dibble. When I first started mine after a rebuild the fire took a fair time to become visible. If your pressure was still 50psi then you may have dodged a bullet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaveN Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 A ‘Triumph specialist’ would surely have known how to prove oil flow or not ....it’s not rocket science! Agree with JOhn if it had been suspect it should have been thoroughly cleaned out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted May 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 It is highly likely that some water got into the head during the firefighting, two cam lobes had minor surface corrosion that just wiped off. There were no signs of water damage when the sump was removed for inspection. It is possible that there is some corrosion in the head oilway that's causing the blockage. The engine does not seem to have done many miles since being rebuilt, hence my having it fitted. Obviously it would have been better had it been stripped and inspected fully but I'd been unemployed for six months and was trying to keep the cost down, ha ha. Having checked the oil today, I put 3l in last night and the level is now just over full, therefore the car prob lost c. 2.5l last night so it didn't drain the entire system, fingers crossed it starts again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted May 22, 2018 Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 It is highly likely that some water got into the head during the firefighting, two cam lobes had minor surface corrosion that just wiped off. There were no signs of water damage when the sump was removed for inspection. It is possible that there is some corrosion in the head oilway that's causing the blockage. The engine does not seem to have done many miles since being rebuilt, hence my having it fitted. Obviously it would have been better had it been stripped and inspected fully but I'd been unemployed for six months and was trying to keep the cost down, ha ha. Having checked the oil today, I put 3l in last night and the level is now just over full, therefore the car prob lost c. 2.5l last night so it didn't drain the entire system, fingers crossed it starts again. Hi Iani! The oil gallery should have been checked for sludge by using a rifle bore push through as the oil gallery sends oil to most of the key areas?? Was the head gasket fitted correctly and of the correct type? Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted May 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 Hi Iani! The oil gallery should have been checked for sludge by using a rifle bore push through as the oil gallery sends oil to most of the key areas?? Was the head gasket fitted correctly and of the correct type? Bruce. The head wasn't removed Bruce, I know, big mistake, I have a feeling it will be soon as when I drove it last night I was sure one of the followers was noisy, not very bad but it will annoy me, assuming the car is drivable anyway. I has been collected and I await news. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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