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Rusty tank, tired pump and or dodgy fuel


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Hello this is Tony. Although a member for quite a few years, this is my first venture onto the forum; Im after all the accumulated knowledge and experience (aiming of course for the easiest possible fix?) - A fuel expert - Professor Bing(?) used to write at length in TRAction concerning the woes of the PI system but, all this went over my head always benefitting from running such a robust 4pot.

 

However, Following the, seemingly ever longer, winter hibernations, is anyone else suffering ever increasing missing due to fuel issues?

How much fine rust sediment in the b ottom of the bowl is acceptable? - All my old cars used to run with more crud visible and a good blast usually cleared everything out?!

Which brings me into modern fuels, can you just not leave them over winter any more?

Or possibly, original pump is also getting tired (know I am after 60 years)? But, new replacement is rubbish compared.

 

Therefore, taking my above reservations concerning much of the non original equip into consideration, anyone got an idea that does not involve replacing entire system?

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Hi Tony,

welcome to the forum,

modern fuel can go seriously duff - but it does take time.

My TR4 hibernated for 6 months with 1/4 tank and started reasonably well. The fuel may be poor for decent driving but it started.

 

Fuel pumps can be reborn. If you want to know who does it say so and I'll send his details (Dave Davis)

 

'Prof Bing' was in fact Dr. Mike Bingley. I think he would have liked the Professor title.

 

Roger

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Modern fuels seems to turn into a brownish sludge which may turn into a thick glue in the tank especially if the car is off road for months, also sometimes a whitish grey deposit together with the sludge which seems impossible to wash out of a tank.

It does seem to vary from car to car but I have had more in the last decade than in 50 years of previous fuel problems.

Often a new tank seems the only lasting cure.

Old carburettors also don't work & block up, SU float needles seem to stick unless everything is cleaned out. Same experience across various cars.

We fit fuel taps & run engines out of fuel if parking up for a time, but the tanks are still a possible problem.

Fuels eating older tanks if soldered is another issue.

More modern submerged pumps in tanks are another nightmare, they just corrode if left in an unused vehicle, & are not usually repairable.

It's probably best to continuously use the vehicles.

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Tony if you're running SUs , it's easy enough to fill the float bowls with fresh petrol to check out the "stale petrol theory ". You'll probably be opening them up to clear out the sediment anyway.

My pal's non TR classic ( SU carb ) refused to start after 3 months but coughed back to life with fresh petrol in the float chamber.

Bob

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Tony - have sent you a PM ( personal message) - go to top right hand side of this screen page and you will see an image of an envelope which should have a red marker by it to indicate you have a message - click on it to open

 

Cheers

Rich

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Now now Bingley didnt write about Woes, he was a fan of the PI... :rolleyes:

Fuel is getting far more aggressive, its goes off faster and is far more corrosive even against so called fuel resistant materials of just a few years ago. Maybe the best thing would be a good clean out? Tank out flush everything and see what devils you have?

Hello this is Tony. Although a member for quite a few years, this is my first venture onto the forum; Im after all the accumulated knowledge and experience (aiming of course for the easiest possible fix?) - A fuel expert - Professor Bing(?) used to write at length in TRAction concerning the woes of the PI system but, all this went over my head always benefitting from running such a robust 4pot.

However, Following the, seemingly ever longer, winter hibernations, is anyone else suffering ever increasing missing due to fuel issues?
How much fine rust sediment in the b ottom of the bowl is acceptable? - All my old cars used to run with more crud visible and a good blast usually cleared everything out?!
Which brings me into modern fuels, can you just not leave them over winter any more?
Or possibly, original pump is also getting tired (know I am after 60 years)? But, new replacement is rubbish compared.

Therefore, taking my above reservations concerning much of the non original equip into consideration, anyone got an idea that does not involve replacing entire system?

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This last winter I used a fuel stabiliser for the first time and it seemed to make the car easier to start after a couple of months of non use. I did find however that when I had used the fuel that was in it while it was stored and filled up with fresh stuff it went much better.

 

Rgds Ian

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Thanks Roger, all, good to know ‘I’m not alone’.

 

Agree continuous use is the best - those were the days! - but, living in albeit beautiful Surrey the crowded and pothole filled roads bring a host of challenges we never used to have.

 

Interesting threej, concerning running the tank dry; I’ve been doing the polar opposite over last forty+ years of ownership, brimming the tank in an attempt to stop moisture/air/rust

 

Ian i’m not aware of fuel stabilisers, suppose I’m too late for this time? Also, my TR(s) has always been and remains brilliant at starting on the button - OK everything is relative and this is compared to the Elan Sprint on big Webbers sharing the garage space - car is still starting fine and doesn’t start missing until .... just as I start to relax and enjoy myself...

 

Having gone through the electrical side I’m fairly convinced the root cause begins with the fuel in the tank therefore, on that basis, I’m thinking between jettisoning the virtually full tank and properly investigating further or, putting up with the missing, if it doesn’t get any worse / gets better(?) and ‘diluting the old rubbish with new fuel as I go along?

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Hi,

I always put fuel stabilizer/gas anti-freeze in my old cars and garden/power equipment. Seems to do the trick, but once fresh gas is added, everything sure runs better. My idea was that is was a good idea to put everything away for winter with a full tank of gas to prevent condensation and rust.

Yves

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Hi, Tony C I meant we put a tap in the fuel line & just run the fuel system dry after use, a Morgan-Jap my friend has found the fuel tank leaks now even after a solder repair. The tank is soldered anyway.

I've had a low mileage Alfa Spider that continued to ruin pumps & the fuel system in general, a new tank was the only way. First owner hardly used it then it was parked 2 years & I hardly used it either! A Range Rover with a new pump & parked for a year wouldn't start & the pump looked like it had been in the sea for a year. Several others all supposedly cared for!

I feel sure lots of users of old cars have yet to have some of these issues as I never seem to read about it. Probably if they have trouble with the tank they put it down to age of vehicle rather than what the fuel is doing to them. On another subject any strimmers & flymows or similar with fuel left in will be kaput the next year.

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On another subject any strimmers & flymows or similar with fuel left in will be kaput the next year.

No true, I regularly leave my strimmer and lawnmower with fuel in over the winter and they always start the next year.

 

Rgds Ian

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Thanks threej, now I understand that makes sense.

 

Just pulled the tank out, still pristine on the outside and much less blackish / dark brown rust than i was expecting. However, far as I can see and feel inside has coating of light surface rust with (now it is dry) light brown /milky powder.

 

Therefore, for the kind attention of the forum:

1. Anyone else tackled this (successfully)?

2. Is it worth trying to flush the tank? If so, what is most effective method?

3. Any of you cut the tank open, cleaned and coated and then re-welded? - Possibly this is only for ‘more exotics’?

None of the above, just buy a new tank. - Alloy much better than steel? - Who’s the best supplier?

 

btw if we have still got anyone with Dr Bingley type expertise; the petrol burnt like hell running up my arm, don’t remember that in my younger days, is it the fuel or me?

 

Will try and send couple of photos - but, doubtless, will need my kids to teach me... On a different but related final note, whilst taking the tank bracket away I had to remove the ‘seatbelt mechanism’ I’d installed for the baby seat all the years ago; eldest is now six foot four and other two are catching up fast - where did those years go?

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post-15055-0-48324700-1526734945_thumb.jpeg

Interesting, even if you dont pull your tank out... I found (new) points, condenser, plugs, rotor arm, bearings, thermostat, wire / fittings, - stored but forgotten since my European rallying days - tape, knife (circa 1970s), wood drill?? And all sorts of nuts, bolts, washers and fastenings..

 

What was the reasoning behind the initials on the back of the board, was it the guy who put it together originally?

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Final brief update: tank flushed out really well, good as new. Did my own method, cheap, cheerful and seemingly v effective.

New fuel made an immediate difference and interesting to see old fuel , in opaque container, turn into tricolour of light on top, dark in middle with vertical bands down in bottom third?

Pump is okay and bowl clean so far

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