SORN Mess

[Rem18]

So I was looking at the info on a car that has been mothballed for about 16 years.

Although It was certainly SORNE'D at the time the DVLA site says no tax since 2002.

I wonder if its just the way they write it or if there is a problem.

Looking at some documentation it seems a SORN should have been done every year and thats probably the problem. But As far as I can see no notices were ever issued or received.

Before I try and go through the muddle and risk all the horrendous consequences does anyone know if there is a statute of limitations on car tax etc if the muddle cant be sorted? I cant image a set of fines of like £3k a year for all those years.

Does anyone have any experience talking to DVLA about this, are the statutes of limitation, or if notices were never received?

[lightningburns]

Hi,

 

It rather depends on the age of the car you refer to as classic car tax payment exemption was set at 25 years initally then set in 1997 as manufactured prior to 1st Jan 1973.

So if it was taxed until 2001 and is pre 1973 then no tax (actual money) was due anyway.

 

My car 1970 TR6 was exported (but not advised to DVLA as such) in 2008 so was shown as not SORN and untaxed, nothing was mentioned in 2017 about not being SORN when I applied for the logbook, I was twitchy at the time expecting the worst !

 

I don't think you have a choice if you want the car registered and taxed the facts are what they are.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

John

[SeanF]

My car is 1974 and was off the road when I bought it 4 years ago. It was not on SORN and had a note in the file of papers that came with it saying that it didn't need to be on SORN as it was already off the road before SORN came in. Don't know if that is correct. The DVLA site was showing last tax in 1991. Anyway I put it on sorn on the website in march this year without any problems or questions. Only took a few minutes.

[peejay4A]

Eric had been off the road since 1982, well before SORN, when I bought its mortal remains. I did nothing with DVLA until I re-taxed it after the rebuild. No problem.

[Rem18]

No this isnt a tax exempt vehicle as its younger.

However I note that even tax exempt vehicles are technically fine'able as you need to register each year (I dont think the fact that it would be free counts as it talks about registering for sorn etc). If Sean registered it after 26 years the first time technically they could claim all the years it wasnt declared I guess and as you only did it a month ago, maybe they are still needing to write and that gets me back to my question.

I wanted to know if there is like a statute of limitations (max amount of years) or if they could ask for the whole whack going back?

Has anyone been through this, with mothballed cars? I would imagine someone has and would like to know how DVLA respond?

[Rem18]

So going by what Pete says it seems to be 'let sleeping dogs lie'?

Maybe a SORN could set the cat among the pidgeons, I seem to remember that Sorn is only allowed when you have paid tax?

I am concerned that if I try to discuss the muddle it might attract attention. hahahha

[threej]

I recall that if the vehicle had not been taxed after about 1998 then it did not require SORN annually.

But post that it had to be either taxed by fee or the SORN notice sent in for which they used to acknowledge it, but did not send out reminders.

You could get caught if you forgot to SORN when the tax expired, it was the car owner's responsibility to renew SORN or tax ie road fund fee.

It was a good little earner for DVLA when we all forgot to send in SORN & then be greeted by a fine which eventually I think was £80.

Their usual shambles resulted in making the job simpler, so either there was no tax but SORN which continues until the vehicle is sold to a new owner or it is taxed for the road.

If you bought some old wreck which was off road since the year dot they wanted it SORN once it was put into your name,, or you sold it onwards or taxed it for road use.

If you did not register it in your name there was no SORN unless the previous owner had done it & if they did not transfer to you & you forgot to put in your name or to SORN they got the fine.

The responsibility was on you as new owner to SORN or Tax for road use. SORN is part of continuous taxation so you are supposed to do one or the other.

They have some different terms such as "Not taxed for on road use" and if a vehicle has been unused since a long time ie pre 1997 ...the status is "tax not due"

wereas if it has been taxed or SORN since 1998 the status seems to be "not taxed" which infers it is neither on SORN or road use tax paid.

Check via the DVLA site to find the status. I do not know if they still do it but if you bought something that should have been taxed or SORN they used to send out a letter advising about previous gap between current date & the previous declaration & you could find yourself liable.

Edited May 2, 2018 by threej

[john.r.davies]

If it was paying tax or SORNed up to 2002, and it was built before 1978, then no tax is due.

 

BUT it is an offence to keep a vehicle off road without SORNing it. The penalty is £30 plus one and a half times the outstanding vehicle tax rate, so, £30. Not too painful to settle the matter if the DVLA get heavy.

Again BUT, if you don't pay it becomes a criminal offence and the penalty is £1,000. So £1000! Get it sorted, pay the fine if necessary!

(Not my expertise, The Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 (VERA) (as amended). Section 29 and Schedule 2A of the Act applies. See: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/403029/Vehicle_Enforcement_Policy_Table_1__revised_.pdf)

 

John

[Rem18]

So John if its not a pre 78? Might be a fortune....

Again though I ask is there likely to be a statute period as far as I know no reminders have ever been recieved. Or does getting sorted mean like 16 years of tax and fines?

PS. link dont work....

Edited May 2, 2018 by Rem18

[Rem18]

One last thing. A SORN has to be renewed each year right? But there was no renewal notice/tax demand ??

I am wondering if the DVLA site doesnt show the SORN years and or it doesnt have to be renewed?

Edited May 2, 2018 by Rem18

[john.r.davies]

Sorry about the link not working. On my phone at present so can't deal.

 

But likely low or no penalty, Best 'fess up and get it sorted IMHO.

John

[MikeF]

According to a PO my car (62 4) was off the road untaxed/not Sorned from at least the mid/late 80s into 91 when he bought it. No problems with taxing it back onto road save that it lost its original registration.

 

Mike

[jerrytr5]

When SORN first arrived (1998) it was a requirement to re-sorn every year.

This was changed so that you only need to SORN once, see https://www.gov.uk/sorn-statutory-off-road-notification "You don’t need to renew a SORN".

However, SORN is not transferrable, so a new owner of a vehicle on SORN needs to re-SORN in their own name.

Jerry

[Rem18]

Thanks for that Jerry however link seems wrong.

T

When SORN first arrived (1998) it was a requirement to re-sorn every year.

This was changed so that you only need to SORN once, see https://www.gov.uk/sorn-statutory-off-road-notification "You don’t need to renew a SORN".

However, SORN is not transferrable, so a new owner of a vehicle on SORN needs to re-SORN in their own name.

Jerry

[john.r.davies]

My link on SORN penalties was negated by a single character that had been appended! It should be

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/403029/Vehicle_Enforcement_Policy_Table_1__revised_.pdf

 

Somethig similar had happened to jerry's link:

https://www.gov.uk/sorn-statutory-off-road-notification

 

JOhn

[Rem18]

Seems there have never been any notices regards reminders/fines etc, very strange.

Talks about settlements too.

Wondering if anyone has any experience with arguing the cases here?

has any member been through this already?

[john.r.davies]

Just occurred to me - this can't be exclusive to Triumphs, let alone TRs.

The Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs might know the answer, or be a good positon to extract one from the DVLA, without anyone implicating themselves on a specific case.

Suggest, REM18, that you consult the Register Admin and ask that they consult the FBHVC?

 

JOhn

[Grahamgl]

Sorry to go on a tangent, I imported a 4 last year from theUSA. I have a Nova and all the other import documents. The car is for restoration, not currently roadworthy.

Do I have to SORN it now?

Thanks,

Graham

[Rem18]

Graham I seem to remember seeing something about it not needing till its reged. But dont take my word.

 

Regards forgotten / un Sorned car I think answer is to suck it and see if any writing turns up, just like with John Lighting burns comments above.