Insurance theft limitation clause

[Motorsport Mickey]

It must just be me,

 

There seems an awful lot of angst because owners can't appreciate insurers only care for a successful business, if the terms of the classic cover as written and read carefully by an owner doesn't give the cover you need (and having to erect a softop when leaving a car at the side of the road in my opinion is restrictive) then speak with your insurer and clarify if locking the doors and USING an immobiliser satisfies their desire for having a secured vehicle. If it doesn't then go and find a different insurer, when enough people bail out of their business they'll again re-examine what the cost v benefit figures are and possibly change their terms (or maybe drop out of the schemes). Refer to post #9

 

"Maybe surprisingly for many owners but insurance company personnel frequent these forums.

When I brought this up on the Stag owners club forum about 3 years ago Regarding insurers requirement to secure cars by soft top erection Peter James insurance had contacted me by e mail pleading that was fair requirement. I then explained exactly the point Roger has posted here regarding soft top damage to determined thieves, and also explained how expecting a travelling soft top owner to put up the top if he stopped at the kerbside to visit a shop was not only unreasonable but if that was imposed upon me after other reasonable acts were taken, locked doors, immobiliser activated that Id be changing insurers.

After reflection they replied that those actions were fair and would be accepted, however that would not apply if the car was left on a driveway in that condition overnight ( more time for thieves to work on it) and each circumstance would be judged on an individual basis... which was good Enough for me.

Approach your insurer and clarify."

 

Mick Richards

[DRD]

Can anyone confirm whether the TRR insurance policy has this exclusion or not?

 

I couldn't see anything in the paperwork I've got?

 

Daz

[Ransomes256]

I have sent a mail to the TRR insurance but still waiting for a response.

Neil

[Graham]

Both the 6 BOU and the 3 UOV are insured with the register scheme, and the documentation quite clearly state under exclusions if it has been left unlocked (i) or it has been left with the windows or sunroof open (iv) pages 15 and 16 of the KGM policy booklet. Then its not insured. I spoke to the Register team today and was told it wasn't supposed to apply to convertibles, clearly the text has been lifted from a generic insurance policy document.

 

I don't know a lot about much, but what I do know about are contracts. When you take out insurance it is a form of contract and it governed by the schedules, in law you can't have a contract that says one thing and is supposed to mean another. The text is unambiguous if its not locked and the windows aren't up (roof doesn't matter its not mentioned) the insurer could argue that its not insured. Quite how this works for 2/3 that don't have door locks ( or windows really) I'm not sure but I would suggest the documentation needs some more work to make it fit for purpose.

 

On another note I've seen that the vehicles are also not insured if they are taken by a family member or a friend of a family member.

[boxofbits]

As per my post yesterday I have contacted TRR Insurance today ( as underwritten by KGM) and classic vehicles are insured at shows or events provided that keys are not left in the ignition and the doors are locked.

 

They also clarified that your hood DOES NOT need to be in the raised position. The only restrictions which might apply ( on your policy as it does mine) is garaging between the hours of 10:00 pm and 6:00 am, which doesn't apply if you are on a trip in the vehicle between these hours.

 

I have also heard some comments that suggest the car is not insured if stolen from your driveway, but this would only apply with reference to your garaging curfew, where the nominal times of garaging would apply. Outside of those hours it may not be insured whilst standing on your driveway.

 

Other than garaging, terms which apply to modern day cars ( which are still being broken into, damaged and stolen quite easily by low loader/trailer etc) are exactly the same as far as I can see.

 

Kevin

Edited April 30, 2018 by boxofbits

[Motorsport Mickey]

"Outside of those hours it may not be insured whilst standing on your driveway"

 

Kevin, if it has locked doors and the keys are not inside it why would it not be insured ? are driveways classed as less secure than shows or carparks ?

 

Mick Richards

[boxofbits]

"Outside of those hours it may not be insured whilst standing on your driveway"

 

Kevin, if it has locked doors and the keys are not inside it why would it not be insured ? are driveways classed as less secure than shows or carparks ?

 

Mick Richards

 

Sorry yes meant to say it is insured outside of the garaging hours - my mistake!

 

Kevin

[aardvark]

Is putting a tonneau cover on treated the same as erecting the hood?

[Hawk]

What a joke putting a hood up in a TR6 is ...... I get it with moderns but on a car where the roof it held on with poppers!

 

Genuinly I'd rather leave the roof down and doors unlocked than risk any damage. There are plenty of easy ways to immobilise the car.

[Motorsport Mickey]

What a joke putting a hood up in a TR6 is ...... I get it with moderns but on a car where the roof it held on with poppers!

 

Genuinly I'd rather leave the roof down and doors unlocked than risk any damage. There are plenty of easy ways to immobilise the car.

We all realise that security on an old convertible is hopeless, but to quote the analogy, the insurers hold the view that if a building is left empty when somebody chucks a brick through a window if the window isn't repaired promptly it encourages others to break more windows.

The behaviourists tell us this is true, an abandoned building that is neglected and doesn't have windows repaired breeds an ever increasing likelihood of further abuse and damage or theft. In the same way a convertible with the roof down allows ner do wells to walk past scanning for nickable items they can lift and then leg it, there's a short distance between this and the next stage of trying to take the car completely.

Hence the original idea of making the car secure with the soft top even if we all know that entrance to it can only be categorised as simple, it's deterrent effect is to assure thieves that it's likely to have a watching owner etc.

Don't get me wrong on this, we are all coming from the same angle, having to raise a soft top because you've stopped at the chippy is restrictive and not acceptable, seemingly a large number of owners haven't appreciated that an insurance companies terms may mean this unless it's challenged. The time to do that is when you have the car, when it's nicked there's a strong incentive for the insurance to point out their catch all clauses and say "not us".

 

Mick Richards

[Hawk]

We all realise that security on an old convertible is hopeless, but to quote the analogy, the insurers hold the view that if a building is left empty when somebody chucks a brick through a window if the window isn't repaired promptly it encourages others to break more windows.

The behaviourists tell us this is true, an abandoned building that is neglected and doesn't have windows repaired breeds an ever increasing likelihood of further abuse and damage or theft. In the same way a convertible with the roof down allows ner do wells to walk past scanning for nickable items they can lift and then leg it, there's a short distance between this and the next stage of trying to take the car completely.

Hence the original idea of making the car secure with the soft top even if we all know that entrance to it can only be categorised as simple, it's deterrent effect is to assure thieves that it's likely to have a watching owner etc.

Don't get me wrong on this, we are all coming from the same angle, having to raise a soft top because you've stopped at the chippy is restrictive and not acceptable, seemingly a large number of owners haven't appreciated that an insurance companies terms may mean this unless it's challenged. The time to do that is when you have the car, when it's nicked there's a strong incentive for the insurance to point out their catch all clauses and say "not us".

 

Mick Richards

 

Have to say I'm struggling with that analogy.

 

Getting into a TR6 is easy - hood up or down. And as such, I'd rather leave the hood down and doors unlocked than risk some f#cktard damage the hood or locks to check if I've left anything valuable in the glovebox.

 

Driving it away is a different proposition - but again hardly difficult if you know how. And arguably easy to get away with if the hood is up obscuring nefarious activity. Hence, my comment that the car should be immobilised in some way.

[RogerH]

Hi Mick,

I do agree about the behaviour study. Ner'do wells do things on the spur of the moment..

Leaving the roof/hood down is an invitation. However after the invitation you need a message to say - not here matey.

Obvious Steering wheel clamp etc. and then less obvious immobilisers.

 

I have a great idea for a serious deterrent - the Faqirs seat. Something along the lines of a Faquirs bed of nails.

You attach a plate of upward pointing 6" nails on the drivers seat. This plate is locked to the seat.

Get out of that one sonny Jim.

 

Roger

[Bill Bourne]

I've just fitted this to the TR5 that I've finished recently and although a bit pricey at £149.99, it seems to work very well. I know it's a lazy way to disable the car, but that's probably a good thing

 

https://www.batterybrain.co.uk/product/battery-brain-type-t3-12v-or-24v-dual-remote-anti-theft/

 

best Bill

[Ernest]

Hi

 

For what its worth - Rees Bros. have just fitted a batt cut of switch in the boot for me. Seems to be a cheap, and hopefully effective, means of securing a car. I seem to remember a similar device as being standard on a MkII A/H 3000 I once owned.

 

Ernest

[boxofbits]

Hi Mick,

I do agree about the behaviour study. Ner'do wells do things on the spur of the moment..

Leaving the roof/hood down is an invitation. However after the invitation you need a message to say - not here matey.

Obvious Steering wheel clamp etc. and then less obvious immobilisers.

 

I have a great idea for a serious deterrent - the Faqirs seat. Something along the lines of a Faquirs bed of nails.

You attach a plate of upward pointing 6" nails on the drivers seat. This plate is locked to the seat.

Get out of that one sonny Jim.

 

Roger

Hi Roger

 

What happens though if you FORGET about the bed of nails you planted, and do one of those cocky 1960s up-over-the-door sports car jump ins into the driver seat ?

 

Do you think you might regret your anti-theft deterrent?

 

Kevin

[RogerH]

Hi Kev,

I still have a wad of Dandy and Beano comics down my trousers from my school days - I'll be OK.

 

Roger

[derek H]

Sorry I have just read the comments here, I do not view the forum on a regular basis, I tend to get queries via email or by phone.

The policy conditions under our TR Register scheme included putting your hood up when the vehicle was left unattended, however during a meeting with the KGM scheme underwriter this was amended. Unless you have a power hood on your TR this no longer applies. Saying that one is expected to take reasonable precautions certainly locking your valuables in a boot. leaving the vehicle over night. These are not exclusive things, I lock my doors and wind up my windows if I'm leaving my vehicle or put my tonneau cover over too especially if I leave it for any length of time. You should contact the admin of your individual policies as I believe some companies have generic schemes for modern and classic vehicles policies
Derek ( liaison )

[Hawk]

Thanks Derek - good to see common sense prevails.

[astontr6]

Sorry I have just read the comments here, I do not view the forum on a regular basis, I tend to get queries via email or by phone.

 

The policy conditions under our TR Register scheme included putting your hood up when the vehicle was left unattended, however during a meeting with the KGM scheme underwriter this was amended. Unless you have a power hood on your TR this no longer applies. Saying that one is expected to take reasonable precautions certainly locking your valuables in a boot. leaving the vehicle over night. These are not exclusive things, I lock my doors and wind up my windows if I'm leaving my vehicle or put my tonneau cover over too especially if I leave it for any length of time. You should contact the admin of your individual policies as I believe some companies have generic schemes for modern and classic vehicles policies

Derek ( liaison )

Hi Derek! Yes but has this amendment been put into writing and cast in concrete? As some people as I have had experience of, have unfortunately bad memories when it comes to situations like this and not put it into writing?

 

Bruce.

[roy53]

Sorry I have just read the comments here, I do not view the forum on a regular basis, I tend to get queries via email or by phone.

 

The policy conditions under our TR Register scheme included putting your hood up when the vehicle was left unattended, however during a meeting with the KGM scheme underwriter this was amended. Unless you have a power hood on your TR this no longer applies. Saying that one is expected to take reasonable precautions certainly locking your valuables in a boot. leaving the vehicle over night. These are not exclusive things, I lock my doors and wind up my windows if I'm leaving my vehicle or put my tonneau cover over too especially if I leave it for any length of time. You should contact the admin of your individual policies as I believe some companies have generic schemes for modern and classic vehicles policies

Derek ( liaison )

Very tricky putting the tonneau on and winding the windows up.

[RogerH]

[Graham]

I've just fitted this to the TR5 that I've finished recently and although a bit pricey at £149.99, it seems to work very well. I know it's a lazy way to disable the car, but that's probably a good thing

 

https://www.batterybrain.co.uk/product/battery-brain-type-t3-12v-or-24v-dual-remote-anti-theft/

 

best Bill

Bill read your post, looked the link, did a bit of research on the device and decided to buy one. Placed the order at 3 O'clock yesterday and received it this morning ! if it works as well as their customer service is good think I'll be a happy camper

[Bill Bourne]

Bill read your post, looked the link, did a bit of research on the device and decided to buy one. Placed the order at 3 O'clock yesterday and received it this morning ! if it works as well as their customer service is good think I'll be a happy camper

Hi Graham

 

Oh brilliant. I don't know how you are going to fit it, but Iv'e fitted the box in the engine bay, n/s under the front bulkhead, just to the left of the clutch master cylinder. I used 6mm s/s rivnuts and s/s machine screws. You need to space the box away from the panel as the the cable connections fix to the rear of the box. I then ran new battery cables. I think from memory suitable up to 160amps. One from the starter motor to the box. Soldered the ends with suitably sized round connectors. Then another battery cable, from the box to the positive side of the battery. Ran it under the front bulk head lip, where the brake pipes run. I didn't like their battery connector, I thought it 's a bit flimsy, so I used a normal battery connector, that you tighten up with nut/bolt. I then ran the earth to under the fixing for the bonnet release and the live wire for the ignition to the ignition terminal on the overdrive relay. The in line fuse / wire is tie wrapped along the brake pipes so that it's tucked out of the way. I don't have a picture at the moment, but could send if you need. You may probably fit yours entirely differently, but I hope that might help.. One change yet to make, is that I'm considering using the ancillary terminal to keep connected the clock and radio on. Jury's out on that one.

 

best Bill

 

best Bill

[RogerH]

Hi Bill/Graham,

Does it immobilise the car. I've read the gumph but can't see that in the blurb

 

Roger

[Hawk]

_{I'm also interested in whether it can just be disconnected.}

 

_{If you have access to the car, you can access the engine bay and simply disconnect? or is there some sort of siren / alert that I can't see?}