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Insurance theft limitation clause


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Hi Guys,

 

Not that I tend to leave my TR6 unattended with the top down often, on occasions I leave it with the top down in say a car park in my local town or Supermarket when popping in for shopping etc.

 

It now appears that in my insurance policy document, not highlighted by the agent, that anytime the car is unattended without the roof up, windows closed and doors locked, even when paying for petrol, the car is not insured against theft.

 

This apparently applies to most if not all classic car policies if you look at the small print. Is this commonly known?

 

Having to comply with this condition restricts my use of the car which is annoying. The only way to continue using the car for just popping to the shops will be to use say a Crooklock or similar and some sort of imobiliser to defer any opertunistic thief which is what I shall do.

 

Just thought I would bring this clause to the attention of those of you who were not aware

 

Regards

Rich

 

 

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Hi Rich,

I think the stupid, ignorant insurance people have been told that the convertible roof fabric is made from material similar to Supermans cape and can't be cut with a simple cheap penknife.

 

Surely it is better the thief to get into the car, without killing the roof, and then realise it ain't worth nicking.

Or with the case for the 4A 'how does the bloody handbrake work'.

 

Use some sort of steering lock and bugger the insurance.

 

Roger

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Very interesting point that Rich. My 3A lives on aero screens so i can't put the roof up - no windscreen to clip it to.

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It would be interesting to know whether this applies to modern convertibles too or if this is specific to classics.

the last three policy's I have had on modern convertibles have had the clause that " IF A POWER HOOD IS FITTED IT MUST BE CLOSED WHEN LEFT UNATTENDED" as the vehicles in question have had power hoods then I have complied, don't know the situation for manual hoods.

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Maybe surprisingly for many owners but insurance company personnel frequent these forums.

When I brought this up on the Stag owners club forum about 3 years ago Regarding insurers requirement to secure cars by soft top erection Peter James insurance had contacted me by e mail pleading that was fair requirement. I then explained exactly the point Roger has posted here regarding soft top damage to determined thieves, and also explained how expecting a travelling soft top owner to put up the top if he stopped at the kerbside to visit a shop was not only unreasonable but if that was imposed upon me after other reasonable acts were taken, locked doors, immobiliser activated that Id be changing insurers.

After reflection they replied that those actions were fair and would be accepted, however that would not apply if the car was left on a driveway in that condition overnight ( more time for thieves to work on it) and each circumstance would be judged on an individual basis... which was good Enough for me.

Approach your insurer and clarify.

 

Mick Richards

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Hi Micky,

I've just gone through my Peter James paperwork and there is no mention of putting the roof up.

I'll have another, slower, read later on.

 

Roger

Probably ties in with their reaction to my questioning them Roger, there's a similar thread running on the Stag forum now with maybe further info for owners.

 

https://socforum.com/forum/forum/stag-owners-club/soc-forum/754337-stag-insurance-cover-for-theft-if-soft-top-not-raised

 

Mick Richards

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Hi Guys,

 

Lancaste/Principle Insurance have clarified that unless the car is your line of sight, ie possibly when paying for petrol, then it must have the roof, manual or auto, up and windows closed and doors locked! I will still leave my car with the roof down when shopping etc if in a proper car park but will fit a battery cut off switch with removable key and fit a visable steering lock. Unless any thieving s--t has a trailer I think the car will be pretty safe.

 

Of course elsewhere I think it would be best to comply. Give any Insurance company wriggle room and they probably wont payout!!

 

Cheers

Rich

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And, in most cases, classic car insurance only covers theft or vandalism if the car is garaged at your home address between 10pm and 7am. So dont take it away for the weekend, eh?

B*****ds!

Rodders

Rodders

That applied if I had declared that my 6 was garaged when at home, which I did.

She lived in a nice warm garage.

So, if I left her on the drive and she was nicked, the insurance company would not pay

 

When I was away from home in the car, she was insured overnight, even if not garaged.

But, I . . . . .

Had to have the hood up!!!

Had to lock the car!!!

On a 1975 Triumph? . . . . .The hood can be opened with a sharp finger nail and the door with a hair grip

Edited by wjgco
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However stupid (and many are) requirements are raised by insurance companies unless you bone them with it first and gain clarification you will be faced with an uphill task when trying to claim for your nicked TR if it goes missing at a pub meet or Classic Car event, they have nothing to gain and only many thousands of pounds to lose by paying out.

Read your clauses intently and where it claims the car must be "secured" if left at the roadside get a definition from them. Soft top up/down, doors locked, immobiliser if fitted activated etc, argue the case with them as outlined here and get them to define it, then comply with it or risk no recompense. I'm afraid you have to define if the same risks would be acceptable if left at your home address drive or garage and if left out of the garage overnight, it's just business, all risk cover in every circumstances is expensive and as the owner it's down to you to define it correctly.

Oh...and don't try going to the Caribbean on a cruise using your free bank insurance cover, some people do, it often doesn't come out well, I wonder why ?

 

Mick Richards

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One would assume that as far as some of the policies are concerned it's only a successful claim when its stolen whilst you are sitting in it, but in the case of say a Caterham Lotus 7 or particularly a Kawasaki 900 classic bike owner for instance there are no doors windows or roof.

 

How do they get on when left at shows on display?

 

Kevin

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"How do they get on when left at shows on display?"

 

If the insurers strictly impose to their "secured" conditions and you haven't clarified and complied with their requirements...not covered.

 

Mick Richards

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I think its a minefield, so all we can do is take our own precautions by as I say disabling the battery supply / steering lock, so that the only way is to trailer it away which limits the opportunity for theft.

I saw a nice Morgan today at my Supermarket left without the roof up, wonder if the owner knows the insurance limitations, probably not?

 

Rich

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Interesting topic, how would the insurance company know if the doors were locked and hood up when the vehicle was stolen?

 

Cheers

Graeme

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Interesting topic, how would the insurance company know if the doors were locked and hood up when the vehicle was stolen?

 

Cheers

Graeme

Graeme,

I am surprised you need to ask as everybody knows how completely honest we are in Great Britain !!

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Interesting topic, how would the insurance company know if the doors were locked and hood up when the vehicle was stolen?

 

Cheers

Graeme

In GB we live in the worlds most observed society, parking cameras, traffic light cameras, neighbours, CCTV observations etc etc the only thing any of these observations don't do is prevent our cars being nicked.

They do however provide evidence that a recalcitrant TR owner who left his car with hood down and walked away whistling ain't going to get a bean unless he's already confirmed the requirements of the insurance company and complied with them.

It's a business, they can't offer all risk insurance cover for a minimal fee that covers all circumstances, we need to be aware of the requirements and comply or discuss to minimise our exposure to risk and loss of funds.

 

Mick Richards

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It may very well be a business but insurance is a competitive market, and so they need to make owners of vehicles feel at ease with their product.

 

I have just renewed for a dual car policy with A plan and had quite a long telephone conversation with them whilst renewing, specifically discussing classic cars. I was not told of the requirements of leaving the car unattended which is quite a serious omission from a policy. I duly received the documents by email , but there is NO policy document contained within the 4 modules which outlines this major risk . Having looked at KGM on line I cannot find a policy document for classic cars but have found the following :-

 

 

Introduction to Classic Car

 

Owning a classic car is often a lifelong ambition for the lucky owner. These vehicles are the pride and joy of enthusiasts who will often want to use them at outdoor exhibition events and shows such as rallies, track days and summer fairs.

 

Owners therefore need the peace of mind that their policy covers these types of activities and is provided by an insurer with many years of experience at managing repair work and sourcing parts.

 

KGM was one of the first, if not the first, to introduce classic car insurance and during this time we have accumulated a wealth of specialist knowledge and flexibility of providing bespoke quotations tailored to the individual requirements of your customers.

 

The key features and benefits include:

 

Agreed value

Discount for Owners Club members

Multi vehicle policies available (rated on aggregate value)

Show cover available

Wedding Hire cover available

Up to 4 named drivers

Windscreen cover (limited to £500)

Left-hand drive vehicles accepted

European cover

 

Three of the above, being agreed value, owners club discount, multi vehicle policy, and European cover were discussed when I was prompted. There was NO discussion whatsoever of show cover and NO reference to show cover or the risk of being uninsured at shows is made in the literature I received. Most houses can be broken into quite easily and looted, damaged or burnt down by intruders. Does that mean your home is uninsured whilst unattended ? Or if I insure a fishing boat which I park up on the beach and is stolen. Is that uninsured also?

 

The claim ratio is likely to be much higher in general for accidents involving everyday traffic with huge repair costs usually involving at least two vehicles in addition to claims for subsequent injuries, across the UK than it is for the 300 odd miles per annum that classic car owners cover and the occasional theft, bearing in mind modern day vehicles get trailered up and stolen also, and often not even driven away.

 

I think the insurers need to clarify that these cars are properly insured at events and the circumstances under which it is not insured at events or shows and should include it in the policy or discuss this point with the client at the point of contract, and to make this point abundantly clear in the insurance literature - not just be complacent with the idea that if your car does get stolen at a show for instance, its not covered simply because they are a business and absolve themselves of responsibility. I have a show to go to next week, so I will be back in touch with A Plan tomorrow as I want to know without doubt that as long as I dont leave the keys in the ignition and the doors wide open I am insured for such, and further why no reference is made to this point in the literature received by email. My insurance does state that I am insured for events and shows but without any detailed clarification of circumstances under which the vehicle is not insured.

 

Kevin

Edited by boxofbits
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I know a TR owner who left his large dog in the car to deter thieves. I am not to sure how he did it but the dog stayed put in the car while he went off around the show. When he got back he found the dog had chomped large chunks out of the TR's leather steering wheel. I guess the dog just liked leather!

 

Dave

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I have to admit, I'm glad that my policy here doesn't have this type of restriction. The TR4 top is a pain in the rear-end to erect and if I had to raise it every time I stopped for coffee or a wander around a village on a weekend drive for fear of a total loss...

 

Obviously(?) insurance rules and rates are (theoretically) based on hard data of losses, how they happened, who was driving, what were the circumstances, etc. It would be interesting if some classic car grouping could dig into what evidence there actually is for this type of rule - especially as it seriously impacts the use of classics, IMO.

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