Jump to content

Front Hub Issue


Recommended Posts

Hello TR-Friends,

 

after my 50 miles testdrive I discovered grease on the inner brake pads. (Both driver und passenger side)

see attachment. I expect the following:

a. the hub gets too hot

b. the hub has too much grease

 

I installed Tony Drews' Uncle Jacks and ensured the wheel is turning freely. After the test drive, I did not find the front hub hot, not even warm.

Therefore, I have to rule out a.

 

The manual states, to add some grease to the insides of the hub before installing the bearings. But how much? A teaspoon, a tablespoon, a cup ??

I expect I overdid it.

 

Last, the felt seal. I now have to take the seal out and replace it with a new one. There are many discussions on soaking the seal in oil or put some grease on it. Any advice?

 

Jochem

post-15451-0-86087700-1522213735_thumb.jpg

Edited by JochemsTR
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello TR-Friends,

 

after my 50 miles testdrive I discovered grease on the inner brake pads. (Both driver und passenger side)

see attachment. I expect the following:

a. the hub gets too hot

b. the hub has too much grease

 

I installed Tony Drews' Uncle Jacks and ensured the wheel is turning freely. After the test drive, I did not find the front hub hot, not even warm.

Therefore, I have to rule out a.

 

The manual states, to add some grease to the insides of the hub before installing the bearings. But how much? A teaspoon, a tablespoon, a cup ??

I expect I overdid it.

 

Last, the felt seal. I now have to take the seal out and replace it with a new one. There are many discussions on soaking the seal in oil or put some grease on it. Any advice?

 

Jochem

Hello Jochem! What are Tony Drew's Jacks? Are they spacers to stop the stub-axle from bending? Regarding the felt seals, my experience to date is that neither of the two main suppliers of TR parts supply the correct size of seal or quality bearings.Again this has gone on for years, certainly over 30 years! The only company that suppliers the exact correct size of felt seals here in the UK which are made by the original OEM is Ball Roller and Transmission Bearings Ltd in there Kit BRT298 They are one of the largest kitters of bearing kits here in the UK. It also has proper Jap. NTN Bearings in this kit. I have never had a problem with grease spewing out when I have used one of there kits, unlike the other two or the quality of bearings! I would think that I put a table spoon of grease in! As a minor point they can also supply a proper RHP Clutch Release Bearing another OEM part.

 

Bruce.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Swap the felt seals to rubber seals and make them proper fit.

The front hubs are full of grease that is turning around.

 

A special sorting of the place or amount of grease is not the solution.

 

Behing the felt is a metal plate. Maybe that is in the wrong position or does not

lock the inner grease to the outside. It must airtight fit into the hub.

So the grease has to climb a bit to the center of the axle to leave the hub.

This is not the case in your hub. so it squeezes out on the outside of the plate.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The felt with its metal base was tapped in firmly. This is definitely a tight fit. After removing the hub, there were NO signs of any grease squeezing anywhere, this makes it so awkward.

I can only assume the base of the felt was not deep enough installed in the hub and on the bearing. There may be a gap between bearing and felt-base.

I bought SKF13612 seals. They are too large, however, are posted on more websites.

Jochem

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Jochem,

the way I see it - the felt seal does not sit on the bearing. It simply forms a seal against the faces on the Vertical Link.

As such it does not stop grease escaping but dirt and grit coming in.

 

There should be no pressure on the grease to force it anywhere.

 

Have you got a (extractor) hole on the outside cap that covers the big nut. This keeps the hub internal pressure at atmospheric.

 

Roger

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Roger,

this is going to be very painfull for me.....I covered the holes in order to avoid any leakage of the grease in the rim.

I was not aware that such internal pressure could be so fast and extensive.

Jochem

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Jochem! What are Tony Drew's Jacks? Are they spacers to stop the stub-axle from bending? Regarding the felt seals, my experience to date is that neither of the two main suppliers of TR parts supply the correct size of seal or quality bearings.Again this has gone on for years, certainly over 30 years! The only company that suppliers the exact correct size of felt seals here in the UK which are made by the original OEM is Ball Roller and Transmission Bearings Ltd in there Kit BRT298 They are one of the largest kitters of bearing kits here in the UK. It also has proper Jap. NTN Bearings in this kit. I have never had a problem with grease spewing out when I have used one of there kits, unlike the other two or the quality of bearings! I would think that I put a table spoon of grease in! As a minor point they can also supply a proper RHP Clutch Release Bearing another OEM part.

 

Bruce.

Direct link http://www.brt-bearings.com/wheelbearingkits.html

Stuart.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The felt side of the bearing seal should face the engine.

 

The metal backing plate of the seal confines the roller bearing to the race in which it turns.

The metal backing plate does not contact the bearings.

Edited by Sapphire72
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Stuart! thanks for that. Its a pity that Moss & Rimmer do not seem to know that! I have used them since the 1970's even when I was an engineering buyer. I used them recently when restoring an old BSA motorcycle. It was the usual problem cheap Chinese bearings from BSA part suppliers or FAG from BRT. , no contest as far as I am concerned.

 

Bruce.

Link to post
Share on other sites

some pictures...any thoughts? There was no indication of grease squeezing out the metal base plate of the felt.

Picture 0873 shows grease on the inner diamater of the felt. My impression is however, too much grease...

 

I am not able to find any decent felt seals, I ordered 2 from Rimmer. ...if anyone has a good rubber version, please let me know...

 

Jochem

 

PS the base color of the felt is grey...not white...so do not get the impression the felt is completely soaked with grease.

 

post-15451-0-97199500-1522302788_thumb.jpg

post-15451-0-58737100-1522302796_thumb.jpg

post-15451-0-56664400-1522302803_thumb.jpg

post-15451-0-10691300-1522302810_thumb.jpg

post-15451-0-34724000-1522302817_thumb.jpg

Edited by JochemsTR
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Jochem,

the normal part number supplied by the big boys has the felt too thick by a long way. It can be cut back with a very sharp blade.

I understand that the Spitfire grease seal is the correct thickness - assuming that the correct seals have been put in the store's boxes.

 

Or you could contact BRT in Bruce's post #3 and see if they do them separate from the bearings.

 

Roger

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello TR-Friends,

 

after my 50 miles testdrive I discovered grease on the inner brake pads. (Both driver und passenger side)

see attachment. I expect the following:

a. the hub gets too hot

b. the hub has too much grease

 

I installed Tony Drews' Uncle Jacks and ensured the wheel is turning freely. After the test drive, I did not find the front hub hot, not even warm.

Therefore, I have to rule out a.

 

The manual states, to add some grease to the insides of the hub before installing the bearings. But how much? A teaspoon, a tablespoon, a cup ??

I expect I overdid it.

 

Last, the felt seal. I now have to take the seal out and replace it with a new one. There are many discussions on soaking the seal in oil or put some grease on it. Any advice?

 

Jochem

Hi Jochem ! Looking at your pictures, I see that the felt seals have become detached from their metal shells and you have these m/s spacer collars. As Roger says the dust cap centre hole s/b left open also that black graphite grease looks bit thin to me, more for U/J's and sliding splines? Is it high temp. bearing grease? In my experience those felt seals look a bit thin as well but they may be slightly compressed because they have been already fitted. My new BRT one is i/d 33 m/m x 51 m/m x 12 m/m thick for the felt only! Is this where some of the problem lies? I have always given mine a squirt of 3-in-one oil all over before fitting.

 

Bruce.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Jochem,

if it fits then it will do the job - but is overkill.

The simple felt seal works well once it is fitted correctly.

 

Roger

The lip seal arrangement was used on Spitfire/GT6/Herald etc Not ever on TR to my knowledge. (No doubt there is a 'Works' car out there with rubber seals fitted, just to prove a point) Rubber seal would work OK on a TR as there is a seal land area on the V post.

Triumph deleted the TR2 front hub with grease nipple very early on for reasons of strength allegedly. I suspect they never added grease nipple to the revised later hub to stop over enthusiastic lubrication, with subsequent brake contamination.

Yes the hole in the dust cap must be kept clear.

Peter W

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
Link to post
Share on other sites

I bought SKF13612 seals. They are too large, however, are posted on more websites.

 

I bought mine on Ebay.

do not remember who it was, maybe CCC.

They are much smaller than normal ruber seals.

They look a bit similar to the seals of the stub axles at the diff,

they are around half of the thickness of the normal rings.

 

Anyway I agree that the problem with the grease leaving the hub is located elsewhere.

The felt itself should not carry much grease in it because it rotates with the hub.

When the hub gets warm I would expect the grease is thrown to the outside.

But how did the grease come into the felt that much?

I tend to follow Roger although I never locked the front hole and have not tested that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Bruce,

I removed the felt from the base...

The grease I use is Liqui Moly LM47....I am glad to try something better.....any recommendations?

Jochem

I use Granville Multi-Purpose Grease, which clearly states on the tin that one of its uses is for wheel bearings. Have used it for 5 years without any problems.

 

Bruce.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I use Castrol HTB2 for front wheel bearings:

 

https://www.castrol.com/en_au/australia/products/off-road/greases/spheerol-htb-2.html

 

I've used Castrol HTB greases in their various forms for these bearings since disc brakes were introduced in Australia in the 1960's . I've never had the grease melt even after the brakes are working so hard you can readily smell them while driving.

Link to post
Share on other sites

...new seals installed.

I could not find these under TR6 section in various catalogues....but under Spitfire...

The seal is about 7,5mm thick, and is tapped in about 5mm in the hub. So 2,5mm protrudes and slightly touches the inside of the vertical link.

 

Jochem

post-15451-0-34027200-1522825303_thumb.jpg

post-15451-0-47258200-1522825327_thumb.jpg

post-15451-0-26056400-1522825336_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Jochem,

I may have this wrong but I think the seals are too thick.

 

The inner race of the inner bearing needs to be very close to the VL so that the hub can be tightened and allow a fraction of a mm play.

 

With your seal sticking out you may well be able to tighten the nut but it will be the rubber seal taking all the load and the bearing will have too much play.

The inner bearing will be loose.

The felt seal is really the correct method with out hubs.

 

Have you looked at a Spitfire hub to see how deep the seal recess is - I suspect it is much deeper to allow the bearing to 'almost' sit correctly.

 

Roger

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please familiarise yourself with our Terms and Conditions. By using this site, you agree to the following: Terms of Use.