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TR3 "knock-down" kits for export?


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Over on PistonHeads is a TR3 owner with DVLA problems.

His car was brought back here from South Africa. Because its SA documents say it was "Built-up", the DVLA is treating it as a kit-car and offering a Q registration and not an age-related one.

 

I believe that in that day, some manufacturers exported "knock-down" kits of parts for assembly abroad, and that such a car might be termed "built-up" although it was as much a production car as any that left the home factory. Do any TR3 gurus know of this about Triumphs and can help the owner?

 

See: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=140&t=1711727&i=999999

 

JOhn

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John,

 

I understand that the real issue here is about date of manufacture, or build.

 

Of course, all of the CKD parts were made in the Coventry factory and the date of despatch is known.

 

However, what is required by DVLA is the date all of the parts were finally screwed together with the end result being a working vehicle.

 

This date will be later than the date provided by BMH and will only be available from the relevant overseas authority, assuming of course that this date is available at all from any records. If those records don’t exist, which may well be the case, there is no build date that DVLA will accept and the end result is a Q Reg.

 

The answer in the case is to find whatever information there is available from the SA authorities concerning date of build and/or registration.

 

I’m afraid I do not know who he actually needs to contact in SA.

 

I’ve not posted onto PistonHeads.

 

David

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I don't know if Bill Piggott still does this sort of work, but I know he has been invaluable to many in similar situations. Is the TR3 owner a member of the TR Register, it might help having club support, and certainly Mike Ellis may be able to help?

Good Luck

Ian

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Now that the DVLA have seen these documents it is probably too late to do anything. It is always best to contact the club first. Trouble is many of these cars are deregistered while being rebuilt and when re registered are given a registration document that says built up and the year of reregistration. The DVLA then require details from SA which is hard to come by.

 

I would be happy to look at it but I have a long backlog for this sort of thing.

 

Probably contentious but why should a Q plate matter, if it's a nice TR it is a nice TR.

 

Mike

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The Series 1 Land-Rover world is experiencing the same difficulties with CKD vehicles from Oz... For some reason they are not interested in the chassis number which indicates the production point but the actual assembly date from the foreign factory. As all these cars are 55+ years old, one does wonder at DVLA'S rationale here... at least the Land-Rover has a proper "chassis" number stamped on it.... not that it seems to help... A poster on the LRSOC forum has said that the German authorities will just issue a "default date" in cases like this and simply get on with the registration task... so perhaps register in Germany, then you have a document with a first registration date on it that will be acceptable to DVLA???

Edited by NickKerfoot
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Hi John, this may be of use to the S.A. TR chap. This guy was really helpful to me when I was trying to get some history on my S.A.TR3a. His mail is nols.pienaar@gmail.com and he keeps records for the Triumph Club in S.A. Cheers Chris.

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Thanks to all.

Returning to that thread, I realise that the OP is old (Dec, '17) has just been revived, by another poster, drawing it to my attention.

The OP isn't responding, and doesn't take PM's, so who knows?

 

JOhn

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Hi Everyone

 

(This is a copy of what I have just posted on Pistonheads)

 

Many thanks for your interest. Sorry I haven't been active on this post but have been away a lot and got struck down by a rotten lergy in December that was going around and only recently starting to get back to normal.

 

The chap I bought this beautiful car from in Knysna, South Africa is a very reputable dealer and he is currently actively involved in trying to get this sorted.

 

We are actually in touch with the equivalent head of the DVLA in South Africa and he is making enquiries as to how he can help, (if he can) and issue the car with the proper registration papers it deserves and is entitled to. A lot of these cars were taken off the road in South Africa and had complete body off nuts and bolts restoration, like my car. When they came back onto the road once restored, the new registration system in South Africa could only cope with registering these cars as "Built Up".

 

My car has an Authentication Certificate from SAAVA (Heritage) and a letter of confirmation from Toyota, who were at that time in 1956 known as Motor Assemblies, confirming they assembled the car in November 1956, and confirmed the Job Number which is plated in the engine compartment.

 

Unfortunately there have been quite a few chancers...one guy tried to register 2 cars with the same car details!

 

The DVLA have apparently taken a hard line and won't do anything for me until the papers read "Used" and not "Built Up". They want to issue me with a "Q" Plate.

 

This would destroy the heritage of the car and render it's value useless.

 

I'm hoping to have an answer back from the South African Authorities soon and will let you know how I get on. At least the SA authorities are being sympathetic and helpful at this stage.

 

I've uploaded an image of my car.

post-15392-0-50606500-1521744366_thumb.jpeg

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Hi there.

 

You can give me the commission/engine number and if you have it, the build number which would be on a plate on the left side of the bulkhead.

Nols is my club registrar as well as the national one. I can ask him personally if he has records.

 

He may have some records of the car, but I don't think he can do anything officially, but maybe someone in the club has contacts.

There are a few traders in Knysna that sell the TRs out of the country (making them much rarer on our roads!) but I don't think they try to find exhaustive records.

 

Its not very clear, but you can see a picture of the plaque on the bulkhead (The shape at least) on this car that is currently for sale.

http://frostbrothers.co.za/portfolio/1955-triumph-tr2-with-overdrive/

 

Dirk

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624 TR3s were assembled from Completely Knocked Down (CKD) kits in Durban SA, so it could be one of those.

 

Although the Durban factory sourced lots of parts locally such as windscreens, shock absorbers, tyres etc to save import duty, the TR3s weren't kit cars due to having a S-T chassis, body and drive train.

 

A telltale of a SA assembled TR3 woud be two small holes drilled in the lower corner of the firewall on the passenger's side. That's where the supplementary SA commission plate was fixed.

 

On SA assembled TR3As with their smaller factory commission plate, the supplementary plate was mounted up on the firewall near the master cylinders.

Edited by vivdownunder
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Hello ezypilot

 

I also have a SA import sourced from Messrs Frost out of Knysna. I didn't import it myself but bought it from a Classic Car garage in the UK two years ago.

 

When I purchased the car, it was already registered with the DVLA and had an age related registration number.

 

What you are missing is the SA 'Certificate of Registration in Respect of a Motor Vehicle' with 'Used' against the vehicle status and the 1st reistered date against 'Date of Liability for first licensing' e.g. 01-01-58. I have this document. My car had three previous registration numbers which are recorded on the CRRMV mentioned above. From what you say, it appears that the status of the car has not been recorded/followed through correctly by the previous owners. My car was restored in the mid '90's (nut & bolt) so that hasn't been an issue.

 

Messrs Frost supplied the CRRMV along with an export document, so I would have thought he would know what is required in the UK to register a vehicle against it's true year of build.

 

I also have the build date by MA Durban, this was confirmed to me by Mr Colin Downie who worked at MA and later Toyota who took over the plant. I also have a few emails from Nols Piennar confirming car details etc. Unfortunately, this cuts no ice with DVLA, they will require a copy of the CRRMV as above.

 

I note you are pursuing it via Messrs Frost, his name appears on my CRRMV has the 'Owner', so it maybe that he can chase up the previous car history and get the SA Registration Authority to issue with a new/revised CRRMV.

 

Good luck

Rob

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