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One week into ownership and on recovery truck already

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I've only had my car a week, the previous two owners had looked after it well but don't appear to have driven it much, I have all the MOT's and it shows an average of 51.5 miles/year over the last 12 years. Knowing this, I have to expect a few issues as I start to use the car, tonight I have been bitten by one. When I collected the car I noticed that the brakes worked but there was no pedal feel whatsoever, I visited TRGB yesterday and they recommended I fit a new brake master cylinder, I did this today and after bleeding all round 3 times, I had a nice firm pedal, I test drove the car and all was well, including some emergency stops, I took my wife out for lunch and, again, all was well. Tonight however, I managed to drive about 9 miles when the car suddenly started slowing down and the brake pedal was rock solid, on stopping the car I saw a lot of smoke coming from the OSF calliper. I called for a recovery truck and waited, after 90 mins or so, the brake pedal freed up and the car seemed to drive ok, I was recovered home and the car is now in the garage, not quite in disgrace as I'm not entirely surprised that this has happened.

 

Obviously I'm going to need to replace this calliper (and other side perhaps?) I guess the pads will be toast too, but is there likely to be any effect to bearing grease etc?

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This causes a lot of problems-"but don't appear to have driven it much".

 

​I suspect that the problem is with the new master cylinder. Personally I would have had the old MC rebuilt. There's some really substandard copy parts out there.

 

​If you replace the calipers you might as well check the front wheel bearings adjustment and regrease them. Note: I found removing the bearing dust caps fairly difficult, I've welded thick washers to the top of the caps to give me something to grip when I remove them.

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...did you check the PDWA after bleeding? If this is not centered or reset you have full brake on either front or rear. Or do you have a functioning brake warning light?

For the master cylinder recommendation: TRW PMF214.

For the calipers, take out the pads, check for visible damage, lightly (!!) press on the brake pedal. The pistons will come out. You should be able to press them back by hand!

If you have original Gerlings, if necessary, have them rebuild, do not buy the no-name after-market crap.

Jochem

PS also check the rear drums.

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Too old brake hoses, inside soaked (reduced diameter)?

I had this on an SP250 I had. Very worrying (safety critical after all) and a bit disheartening.

 

It was only the flexible hose to that calliper. They can delaminate inside and act as a non return valve. Typically keeping brake on as there isnt any real pressure in letting off the brake.

 

My first job in your position is replace all the flexible brake hoses (if one has gone they could all be on the way out) its fairly easy and ( given what you are considering ) a cheap fix option

 

Personally I would rebuild or have rebuilt the callipers - new seals and pistons.

The rest is just lumps of iron. But hopefully original lumps.

 

These were my SP250 callipers the believe or not worked but felt a bit wooden. On a - well maintained - car before I bought it.

 

Change the hoses

Remove the pads and gentle try the pedal to move the pistons and see if they are rusty.

Old brake fluid attracts moisture. Moisture equals rust.

Best of luck and dont get disheartened.

 

H

Ps (how old are the tyres ??!!!)

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post-14544-0-57616900-1521099105_thumb.jpeg

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Regarding the PDWA valve I removed the electronic part of it, made a new bolt that sealed the hole and at the same time made sure that the small piston inside does not move anymore. Could also be sticking calipers and possible also with blocked hoses so everything needs to be checked.

 

Sticking calipers is probably the most common cause though.

 

Magnus

Edited by TRseks

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Yes, the brake hoses should be replaced.

Had that several times at cars of clubmates.

Old rubber might not like DOT4.

They are old anyway and may fail in future.

 

Also the PDWA often is a ticking bomb in the brake system.

I remove that because the brake pressure can pop out if a gasket fails.

Often its in place for years and if it has to switch the rotten rubber rings can fail.

 

Better make a good check including brake lines discs ans drums and liner and pad

and drive with a safe feeling in future. TR6 parts are cheap, so easy to take all new and from

best quality!

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An average 50 miles annually over the past 12 years suggests you're gong to be doing some serious mechanical restoration in the immediate future . . . . . for sure the car won't be safe to drive on the road without a good deal of attention.

 

Anything rubber or flexible is likely to be scrap, and anything mechanical subject to significant corrosion is likely to be well corroded by now. Gut everything out of the engine bay and replace as necessary, then a complete strip down of braking, steering and suspension would be in order . . . . there'll be no shortage of items requiring renewal.

 

Sadly, the lovely looking car that's covered hardly any miles over quite a few years is not the one to buy - not unless it's coming very cheap. It is going to cost serious money to get it back into a genuinely roadworthy state again.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

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Sorry to hear of your troubles but don't be disheartened, keep going and you will soon be enjoying your 6.

 

I'm local, in Market Harborough and could come over and take a look sometime, see if I can assist with diagnosis. Please pm me if you would like a spot of help and/or moral support.

 

Nigel

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+1 for Alecs recommendation.

If you give it a thorough inspection and service now, you will be safer, and also avoid the irritation of the several disappointments like no clutch due to keaking slave, no electricity due to poor contacts, rear brakes hot due to sticking cables/rear cylinders etc.

And you get more confidence in the car as well.

Enjoy it.

Waldi

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Thanks for all the responses, after I posted I took a look through the receipts that came with the car. The callipers were new ones from the TRShop and were only fitted 12 months ago, along with new braided flexible hoses. When I bled the car, the old fluid looked clean, there was some crud in the old M/Cyl but nothing too alarming. My car is a '69 UK model, it doesn't have a PDWA fitted so that rules that out. I'm off to remove the offending calliper now and see if I can find anything untoward there.

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Hi Ian,

out of curiosity what type of brake fluid are you using - DOT4 or DOT5?

 

Roger

DOT 4 Roger

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Hi Ian,

you say you have fitted a new Brake M/cy. I would suggest that for a short while you place a plastic sheet under the M/C to catch any fluid drips.

 

If you have normal paint work it will remove it and there have been issues in the past with leaking M/C's. Hopefully they remain an problem of the past.

 

Check your brake pads. The EBC Green Stuff pads (painted green) can feel very wooden (your original problem).

 

Roger

Edited by RogerH

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It will just be a caliper piston sticking or stuck, do not panic - do what we used to do in the old days, take pads out, get someone to gently pressed the brake pedal (did I say gently!!) then lubricate piston and repeat......if that doesn't work put a pair of new calipers on......theyre only £150 pair all in.....

 

Typical of a car that has done limited mileage......do local journeys until you iron out any little issues....

 

Good upgrades are:

 

Bosch Pump Conversion

Electronic Ignition

Red Rotor arm (dizzy doctor)

 

:o)

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One other possible cause

 

Where the servo pushrod pushes on the master cylinder piston there needs to be a small clearance, specified in the manual.

 

If this clearance is incorrect then the mc can lock on.

 

Its an easy check and worth the 10 mins, especially as you have new callipers and hoses!

 

Steve

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On removing the OS wheel I discovered a lot of black gunk around the pads, I suspect whoever fitted them (a professional garage!) put some substance on the back of the pads to stick the anti squeal shims on prior to fitting. After cleaning everything up, I tried pushing the pistons back, the inner piston would some straight back out around 1.5mm on removing the pushback tool. I checked the NS calliper, the same black gunk under the anti squeal shims but here it hadn't oozed out, obviously there was no sticking piston on this side to generate the heat. Hopefully this means that my issue was down to a sticking piston, these were cheap repro callipers after all. I'll get another one and some fresh pads and see how things go. Thanks all for the advice & support.

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may be worth a call to the TR Shop. But first i would think it's the black gunk thats your problem,, clean it off and operate the pistons again a few times to see if ok.

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On removing the OS wheel I discovered a lot of black gunk around the pads, I suspect whoever fitted them (a professional garage!) put some substance on the back of the pads to stick the anti squeal shims on prior to fitting. After cleaning everything up, I tried pushing the pistons back, the inner piston would some straight back out around 1.5mm on removing the pushback tool. I checked the NS calliper, the same black gunk under the anti squeal shims but here it hadn't oozed out, obviously there was no sticking piston on this side to generate the heat. Hopefully this means that my issue was down to a sticking piston, these were cheap repro callipers after all. I'll get another one and some fresh pads and see how things go. Thanks all for the advice & support.

Hi Ian,

there is an issue with some new calipers. The seal is too stiff and it stops the piston from going back fully (the piston does go back but then pops out again)

This makes life hard when bleeding.

 

Roger

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Too old brake hoses, inside soaked (reduced diameter)?

A good friend had exactly this problem on his MGB. Swollen internals won't let the fluid pressure release.

Change all the hoses.

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Hi - try contacting Conrad here on the forum as I believe he has a stock of properly refurbished OE calipers and master cylinders - I'm sure he will see this shortly but I have a feeling he might be skiing in the Alps - he was a couple of days acording to a different post! ( Conrad where are you?)

 

Cheers

Rich

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I am here , still Skiing,

 

But still up for some sales or bartering.

Cheers,

Conrad.

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A good friend had exactly this problem on his MGB. Swollen internals won't let the fluid pressure release.

Change all the hoses.

The flexies were replaced in March 2017, I doubt they would have failed so quickly.

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Latest: cleaned all the black gunk stuff off, tried pushing piston back, it would but came straight back out a little. The piston seal was also unseated in the gap of the retainer, at this point I decided to replace the calliper. I popped over to Jigsaw and bought a recon original calliper, I have just fitted this and all seems well with the OS. I then checked the NS again having cleaned the same gunk off the pads there, unfortunately this seems to be binding as well, I'm picking up a recon original calliper for this side in the morning, hopefully the issue will be resolved then....or not <_<

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