lynchpin Posted March 13, 2018 Report Share Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) Hi All I apologize in advance as i know this topic has been done before but can someone put it into simple terms please my 62 tr4 .My 62 tr4 is obviously already listed as historic and is vehicle tax exempt but being a "62" I believe that after May it becomes mot exempt. 1, Does it automatically become exempt and I could legally ignore the test this year? 2, If I then take it for a test ,which I will,, and it fails can I still legally use it? 3, Is there any other sort of safety check which will ensure the car is safe ? 4, Will the garage still be able to sign the car onto the DVLA system after this date to keep it on their records? I assume that when the tax renewal arrives and you go online they won;t search for the mot anymore..How anyone could deem the car to be "safe" without properly inspecting the underside on a ramp is beyond me. Sorry for bringing this up again but I was just looking for simplified answers.. Cheers Phil.. Edited March 13, 2018 by lynchpin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pfenlon Posted March 13, 2018 Report Share Posted March 13, 2018 This may help, but others will know for certain. https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/vehicles-exempt-from-mot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lynchpin Posted March 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2018 Hi I think I have got it now according to the GOV.UK site vehicles before 1st Jan 1960 are mot and tax exempt, vehicles from 1st Jan 60 - 1st Jan 77 are tax exempt only, if this a rolling 12 month thing mine will need 3 more mot"s before I have to bother about it. They must have brought the tax thing on some years and I got confused about the MOT ... Cheers Phil... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bleednipple Posted March 13, 2018 Report Share Posted March 13, 2018 Phil, the gov.uk web link above refers to the current situation (ie you need an MOT for vehicles built after 1960) BUT you were correct in your original post that this changes from May 2018, when all vehicles 40 years old or more will suddenly become MOT exempt. My TR4 is also a 1962 car so I'm in the same position as you. And I'm also unclear about your specific questions. (Although it seems on the face of it that if a car fails an MOT it is because it has been found to be unroadworthy, and in that case it would of course be an offence to use it on the road). There has been a lot in the press about this but I will try to find a link to something from the Government.... be right back. Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bleednipple Posted March 13, 2018 Report Share Posted March 13, 2018 ,,, and here's a link to the Government's response to the consultation. In it (page 7) it says it intends to implement the change to exempt 40-year-old vehicles. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/644412/government-response-to-exempting-vehicles-of-historical-interest-from-roadworthiness.pdf It doesn't say the change will take effect in May, but that has been widely reported in the media as the date it will happen. Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jogger321 Posted March 13, 2018 Report Share Posted March 13, 2018 What is going to be the position on registering an imported vehicle that is 40 or more years old... Will it still need an MOT to get a number plate off the DVLA (if it was pre 1960 you didn't need one) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hawk Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 My TR4 is also a 1962 car so I'm in the same position as you. And I'm also unclear about your specific questions. (Although it seems on the face of it that if a car fails an MOT it is because it has been found to be unroadworthy, and in that case it would of course be an offence to use it on the road). That is what I would assume as well but what does unroadworthy actually mean? The Road Traffic Act 1988 does not give a definition of what is "unroadworthy", but instead makes reference to the following areas that, if not satisfactory, may lead to a vehicle being unroadworthy: - • Steering and steering gear • Brakes and braking systems • Tyres; • Exhaust systems; • Seatbelts and seatbelt anchorages; • General condition (corrosion, suspension etc). Which is in line with the dictionary definition which relates to mechanical components. So you could (arguably?) fail the MOT on lighting, windscreen wipers / washers, horn etc but still be deemed roadworthy? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike ellis Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 Suggest you follow this link and read Newsletter Issue 1 2018 and addendum. http://www.fbhvc.co.uk/members-pages/newsletter-archive/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) Hi All I apologize in advance as i know this topic has been done before but can someone put it into simple terms please my 62 tr4 .My 62 tr4 is obviously already listed as historic and is vehicle tax exempt but being a "62" I believe that after May it becomes mot exempt. 1, Does it automatically become exempt and I could legally ignore the test this year? yes 2, If I then take it for a test ,which I will,, and it fails can I still legally use it? you do not need an MOT so if it fails then your problem is unroadworthinessnocity. If it fails, drive it home and get it sorted. 3, Is there any other sort of safety check which will ensure the car is safe ? you can get the MOT station to carry out an MOT but without the paperwork. But if it fails then it may still be unroadworthy !!! 4, Will the garage still be able to sign the car onto the DVLA system after this date to keep it on their records? Yes I assume that when the tax renewal arrives and you go online they won;t search for the mot anymore..How anyone could deem the car to be "safe" without properly inspecting the underside on a ramp is beyond me. Inspection by another pair of eyes is imprtant Sorry for bringing this up again but I was just looking for simplified answers.. Cheers Phil.. Roger Edited March 14, 2018 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 Why not stop fannying around with feeble excuses, and just get the wretched car MoT'd annually - that way we'll all feel that bit safer. The only classic owners adequately qualified to judge roadworthiness are MoT testers in the day job, and they do not test their own cars they have another tester inspect the car . . . . . it's called common sense safety. Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 +1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hawk Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 Why not stop fannying around with feeble excuses, and just get the wretched car MoT'd annually - that way we'll all feel that bit safer. The only classic owners adequately qualified to judge roadworthiness are MoT testers in the day job, and they do not test their own cars they have another tester inspect the car . . . . . it's called common sense safety. Cheers Alec I couldn't agree more Quote Link to post Share on other sites
acaie Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 Why not stop fannying around with feeble excuses, and just get the wretched car MoT'd annually - that way we'll all feel that bit safer. The only classic owners adequately qualified to judge roadworthiness are MoT testers in the day job, and they do not test their own cars they have another tester inspect the car . . . . . it's called common sense safety. Cheers Alec +1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lynchpin Posted March 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 Thanks for all the replies, I will still have my 4 mot tested anyway I just wanted a clearer view of the situation. Mike..the link to the news letter is very useful and explains more about vehicle changes and modifications very well, it would seem that as long as the vehicle is as it was 1st built even things like a chassis change is acceptable and the tax or mot exemption is not affected.. Cheers again Phil.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bleednipple Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) Why not stop fannying around with feeble excuses, and just get the wretched car MoT'd annually - that way we'll all feel that bit safer. The only classic owners adequately qualified to judge roadworthiness are MoT testers in the day job, and they do not test their own cars they have another tester inspect the car . . . . . it's called common sense safety. Cheers Alec Agree completely this would be the most responsible thing to do. The trouble is, once the law no longer requires an annual test, 'some of us' will inevitably be tempted to leave a bigger gap between (non-mandatory) MOTs than we should. The stats make interesting reading I think: https://www.statista.com/statistics/323086/road-accidents-caused-by-vehicle-defect-factors-severity-in-great-britain-uk/ In 2016: 120 serious accidents caused by tyre defects/under inflated (8 fatalities) 115 by brake defects (10 fatal) 49 steering or suspension (6 fatal) 33 defective lights or indicators (2 fatal) Of those, we don't know how many were involving 40+ year old cars, but it is surely extremely few of them, and could even be none at all. The MOT test should in theory have picked up all these faults, and I'm sure did prevent many more accidents. But the trouble is that a lot of the things an old car is likely to fail on (eg is the horn working, or a weak handbrake), thereby VOR-ing the car, have little or no meaningful impact (sorry!) on real safety in the real world. So whatever we 'responsible' owners do, I can see some people will skip MOTs (which is presumably what the Government accepts will happen, and is unconcerned because they've assessed the likely consequences as very low). By the way, in the same year 2016, there were 1,792 road deaths. So we should get this in proportion - nearly 99% of deaths were due to other causes: excess speed, lack or care etc etc. Still of course there were 26 tragedies for families of people killed by failed brakes, or not checking tyre pressures - which however an MOT 11 months earlier probably wouldn't have prevented. Just food for thought. Nigel Edited March 15, 2018 by Bleednipple Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tim.labourne Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 From memory reading through all the dvla stuff historic vehicles made up something like 0.06 % of traffic and accounted for something like 0.003 % of accidents. The reason given for not needing an mot was said to be the increasing irrelevance of the new mot test (changes to the mot test are coming at the same time) and also the new generation of mot testers not knowing what they are looking at on older vehicles. In the same way I remember 40 years ago someone I knew with a 1904 de dion or similar had to take it for mot despite it having wood wheels with brake blocks of wood that pressed onto the tyre, it is obviously useless to test such a vehicle to modern standards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted May 1, 2018 Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 From memory reading through all the dvla stuff historic vehicles made up something like 0.06 % of traffic and accounted for something like 0.003 % of accidents. The reason given for not needing an mot was said to be the increasing irrelevance of the new mot test (changes to the mot test are coming at the same time) and also the new generation of mot testers not knowing what they are looking at on older vehicles. In the same way I remember 40 years ago someone I knew with a 1904 de dion or similar had to take it for mot despite it having wood wheels with brake blocks of wood that pressed onto the tyre, it is obviously useless to test such a vehicle to modern standards. MOT Tester still have the discretion of using a Tapley meter to check braking efficiency. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DRD Posted May 2, 2018 Report Share Posted May 2, 2018 Personally I fail to see the logic in not requiring extremely old vehicles to undergo some sort of road worthiness check. For my own safety I would rather things like the brakes & steering are regularly checked. If the MOT itself is diverging away from 'classic' cars then why don't some of our regular classic car garages introduce their own basic annual safety check to give us all piece of mind? Daz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
acaie Posted May 2, 2018 Report Share Posted May 2, 2018 Personally I fail to see the logic in not requiring extremely old vehicles to undergo some sort of road worthiness check. For my own safety I would rather things like the brakes & steering are regularly checked. If the MOT itself is diverging away from 'classic' cars then why don't some of our regular classic car garages introduce their own basic annual safety check to give us all piece of mind? Daz +1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel A Posted May 2, 2018 Report Share Posted May 2, 2018 Crown Classics do a winter health check once a year for the LondonGroup, the last time they picked up badly worn suspension bushes that were missed by the MOT man. Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeyB1 Posted May 2, 2018 Report Share Posted May 2, 2018 Regardless of the rules, I'll still get my '64 TR4 MOT'd. It's a small sum to pay out for the opportunity of another pair of eyes and hands to check out my pride and joy. As regular drivers, we automatically compensate for wear as this usually takes place gradually, so an MOT tester will / should pick up on this. Perhaps I'm lucky, but my regular MOT garage allows me to wander around behind him (don't tell the Ministry) so I'm able to get a good look underneath in comfort rather than lying on my back in a draughty carport. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sadman Posted May 2, 2018 Report Share Posted May 2, 2018 Hi all, just another take on this, roadworthiness aside, those of us on limited mileage policies, is this not proof of annual mileage for the insurance companies? Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
qkingston Posted May 3, 2018 Report Share Posted May 3, 2018 What is going to be the position on registering an imported vehicle that is 40 or more years old... Will it still need an MOT to get a number plate off the DVLA (if it was pre 1960 you didn't need one) I agree with the sentiment that getting an annual MOT remains the sensible thing to do. Picking up on Jogger's point above, anyone got a clue on whether an MOT is required to get a US import registered if the car is now MOT exempt (65 TR4a); I read thru the DVLA website blurb but it's not clear to me, they still refer to the vehicle being roadworthy which would be difficult for a pre-restoration car! David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldtuckunder Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 Took my "Roadgoing?" Competition Vitesse in for an MOT, to a Classic Specialist Garage about 20 miles away today. I have used them for over a decade as apart from knowing old cars, they know and appreciate what I use the car for and that I do all my own maintenance that I like to think is of a high standard, would normally be mortified if they found anything, but always appreciate a second pair of eyes, as well as it being a legal requirement, and a scrutineering requirement. As I have just fitted extra sticky rubber, I said can we give the suspension an extra rigorous inspection as its going to be under extra loading. Have come away with two advisories on play in front trunions, not enough to fail, but certainly enough to make me change them. This was something I had been totally unable to detect in my work shop with ramps, axle stands etc. They also picked up two chassis cracks that fall into the category of Stitch in Time. Given the mileage the car does, all could be left for another year, given use of car and results of failure, would be stupid not to sort now. Given car would now be exempt from MOT, it is quite possible I would have failed to pick up on either until maybe too late. Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 Hi Alan, that extra pair of eye and an unbiased approach is certainly worthwhile. My MOT man found a cracked TRailing arm bracket. The visible part of the crack was less than 1/4" but disappeared under a bolt washer. When I removed the bracket it nearly fell in half. roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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