Andrew Smith Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 I have taken the difficult decision to sell Saffy, my 1970 Saffron TR6. Saffy is being sold on my behalf by Tom Boyd at TR Enterprises who have a long association with the car, see: http://trenterprises.com/?p=1390 Whilst I would like to get the best possible price, equally important is that Saffy goes to the right person. There is a comprehensive history file, a selection of NOS and very good used OEM spares to be included in the sale, plus Saffy’s Airchamber. Not much to add to what may already be known and has been widely published, but I’ve attached the photographs taken for Triumph World Magazine (Link) and listed other magazines and publications for reference: · TR Action, October 2014 - ‘Mellow Yellow’ - 3 page article on the car’s history and the story of the previous three owners - Link · TR Action, February 2016 - ‘To modify or not to modify’ - 7 page feature article in which Saffy is compared with a modified TR6 - Link · ‘Triumph TR6 The Complete Story’, book by David Knowles, published August 2016 - used extensively for originality photos and captions, i.e. 3 consecutive pages and other photographs dotted throughout the book - Link · Classic Cars Magazine, December 2016 - although well above the headline budget, Saffy was used as an excellent original example for a 6-cylinder feature article and road test- Link · Triumph World Magazine, August /September 2017 - ‘Time Travelling in a TR6’ - 5 page feature article about the car’s story, its originality and road tested - Link My future TR motoring needs are open - I may buy or build a fast touring TR6 (Bev has really never forgiven me for selling VUX!), a TR5 or sort out my TR3A (TuRK) for comfortable touring. Please PM me for any further info or if interested in becoming Saffy’s new owner (well, custodian really) please contact Tom Boyd at TR Enterprises. Cheers Andrew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pfenlon Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) Good luck with the sale Andrew. Edited February 23, 2018 by pfenlon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 I saw the advert pop up on Facebook yesterday Andrew, was surprised! I can recommend a ‘fast road’ tr6 as a great fun toy, although mine would not be up to your standards you are welcome to try it as a benchmark ! Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
heckler Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 Good luck with the sale Andrew, the number plate alone as you know is worth a fortune. Can you enlighten as to why there is any value in the number plate . Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pfenlon Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) Good luck with the sale Andrew, the number plate alone as you know is worth a fortune. Can you enlighten as to why there is any value in the number plate . Chris Edit. Edited February 23, 2018 by pfenlon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
had17462 Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 Dr Pete Fenlon! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DRD Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 Why have some posts been deleted here?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Smith Posted February 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) Whilst I accept the usual banter there was one particular post which, whilst trying come across as ‘a helpful TR colleague’, was nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to discredit me and my reputation. Yes, I am passionate about TRs and have been for over 35 years. Yes, I would like to achieve the best possible price for my TR6 (the market will decide that) and equally important is that I would like to see Saffy go to a good home, but to suggest I'm being Insincere in that view is disappointing and quite frankly offensive. I asked for the post to be removed and it seems other posts which quoted the post where also removed, so my apologies if any posts were unwittingly removed. Anyone that knows me knows that I am more thick skinned than most, but I will not tolerate a perceived attack on my reputation. Regards Andrew Edited February 23, 2018 by Andrew Smith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DRD Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 Whilst I accept the usual banter there was one particular post which, whilst trying come across as ‘a helpful TR colleague’, was nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to discredit me and my reputation. Yes, I am passionate about TRs and have been for over 35 years. Yes, I would like to achieve the best possible price for my TR6 (the market will decide that) and equally important is that I would like to see Saffy go to a good home, but to suggest I'm being Insincere in that view is disappointing and quietly frankly offensive. I asked for the post to be removed and it seems other posts which quoted the post where also removed, so my apologies if any posts were unwittingly removed. Anyone that knows me knows that I am more thick skinned than most, but I will not tolerate a perceived attack on my reputation. Regards Andrew Oh OK - I only agreed with the sentiment that the price being quoted seemed rather high for a TR6. I have a similar survivor vehicle with only 34k on the clock in similar rust free condition and would have never dreamed it was worth that much looking at the current market. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cfgarrod Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 The car in question is not ' exactly how it left the factory in every minute detail'. Comparing it to my unrestored 1970 J reg TR6 that I have owned since 1972 I notice the following as being unoriginal: No 1970 CP TR6 was ever fitted with a spoiler. No TR6 ever had full length trim lines. No TR6 was ever fitted with an emergency bonnet release. The front number plate is mounted on brackets below the bumper, not on its leading face. The oil filter housing is painted grey mottled finish. The oil breather flame trap is natural metal. The rubberised part of the drivers carpet is oversized. The vacuum pipe from the metering control unit to the central throttle body is routed through a clip on the rear rocker cover stud. This vacuum pipe is not bundled with the injector pipes. The tool roll and its contents are incorrect. It would be interesting to investigate the fuel pump, clutch release bearing, inside the distributor, and the rear shock absorbers. The spot lights and air horn are after market extras. Call me pedantic - yes - but this is not the car it is claimed to be... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Boyd Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 The car in question is not ' exactly how it left the factory in every minute detail'. Comparing it to my unrestored 1970 J reg TR6 that I have owned since 1972 I notice the following as being unoriginal: No 1970 CP TR6 was ever fitted with a spoiler. No TR6 ever had full length trim lines. No TR6 was ever fitted with an emergency bonnet release. The front number plate is mounted on brackets below the bumper, not on its leading face. The oil filter housing is painted grey mottled finish. The oil breather flame trap is natural metal. The rubberised part of the drivers carpet is oversized. The vacuum pipe from the metering control unit to the central throttle body is routed through a clip on the rear rocker cover stud. This vacuum pipe is not bundled with the injector pipes. The tool roll and its contents are incorrect. It would be interesting to investigate the fuel pump, clutch release bearing, inside the distributor, and the rear shock absorbers. The spot lights and air horn are after market extras. Call me pedantic - yes - but this is not the car it is claimed to be... Some of these are explained in the history file but where does it say it’s exactly as it left the factory? The spoiler is explained along with the spots and air horns..... Feel free to inspect the car, I look forward to your call to arrange an appointment Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tr graham Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 Well worth the asking price , there are not many around in that condition if you ever get to drive a genuine Low mileage TR you will understand why the asking price is where it is and why Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cp25616 Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 Agreed Graham about as original TR6 as I have seen. I can be picky also but not stupidly so ! Good luck with your sale Andrew its a lovely car. Alan G Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pogo Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 This is an amazing car and I only wish I was in a position to buy it. I also wish that my TR6 drove as nicely as this one does. Good luck with the sale Andrew. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 Peter, 'Blue Cedar' seems your mail box is full. John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 If only we had a bar area to discuss the finer points of originality ! Good luck with the sale Andrew Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
openroad Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 Morning George ....best of luck with the sale, it's a big wrench to let a car like that go, I sort of know the feeling ! I am local to TR Enterprises and know where saffy is to be displayed and will be visiting asap. All the best, Conrad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianhoward Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 Best of luck with the sale Andrew... Although I’ve not seen ‘Saffy’ in the metal, all the photos I have seen certainly look good! Cheers Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sapphire72 Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 Beautiful car, Saffy is. Bet it sells quickly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Smith Posted February 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 (edited) Hi folks, Thank you for all your support, positive comments and best wishes for the sale of my TR6, I really do appreciate it. Yes, it will be a wrench and I went out for probably my last drive in Saffy yesterday to make sure all is how is should be, and it was - the drive confirmed just how well it drives. I've spent most of today boxing up all the NOS and good OE spares for the new owner, whoever that my be - squeezing the Airchamber back into the carrier will prove far more of a challenge! Saffy is due to leave my garage next week heading to the showroom...... Steve - thanks for the offer of driving your TR6, I may take you up on that – the current benchmark is VUX (my 1972 TR6), it had a standard CP cam, a gas-flow head and lowered suspension by 20mm. gpgarrod - thank you for your comments and taking an interest in my TR6. As Tom has said most of your observations have already been covered in the various articles linked above, but I’ve expanded a little: No 1970 CP TR6 was ever fitted with a spoiler. - Correct, well not at the factory at least. As explained in the articles, the spoiler was fitted by the first owner in 1973 to give the car a sportier stance and the appearance of a younger car; a common fitment ‘back in the day’ and a bit like when TR2 and 3 owners fitted a TR3A apron and grille for the same reason. No TR6 ever had full length trim lines. - Correct, the swage-line pinstripes were hand painted by the first owner in 1970 to subtly enhance the profile. I think it works. No TR6 was ever fitted with an emergency bonnet release. Correct, and nor is this one, what it does have though is a length of red electrical cable running from the bonnet release back into the car. Seems a sensible addition to me. The front number plate is mounted on brackets below the bumper, not on its leading face. The number plate (original) is where it was fitted by Puttocks (Guildford) the supplying dealer in September 1970 and I agree most were fitted to lower bumper brackets, but for reasons best known to Puttocks they fitted them on the bumper. The oil filter housing is painted grey mottled finish. Correct, many were and many that I’ve seen were also painted blue; this is the housing that came with the car and has not been replaced. Interestingly, I have the original oil filter canister from a friend’s January 70 TR6 (he fitted a spin-on) and it’s also blue. So I guess it’s not inconceivable that colours changed. The oil breather flame trap is natural metal. Correct, and I’ve been looking for a NOS one but have clearly failed miserably. The rubberised part of the drivers carpet is oversized. Well, these are the original carpets and assuming yours are too, then I can only say that it’s likely that different suppliers were used at some point? The vacuum pipe from the metering control unit to the central throttle body is routed through a clip on the rear rocker cover stud. This vacuum pipe is not bundled with the injector pipes. Correct, and thank you for the reminder, I refitted it today. The tool roll and its contents are incorrect. I have it on good authority (Alec) that many TR6s that hit the showrooms were lucky to have any tools supplied let alone any continuity between what was provided, and those that did had them pilfered at the dealership. All but a few of the tools came with the car and had sat in the boot in the tool roll pretty much undisturbed until April 2014. It would be interesting to investigate the fuel pump, clutch release bearing, inside the distributor, and the rear shock absorbers. Not sure investigating these consumable components would really be that interesting? However, the fuel pump is Lucas with a NOS canister with a mottled grey finish; although I have also seen original canisters in mottled blue and green, so it’s likely they were painted in whatever colour was to hand. Inside the dizzy is pretty boring, just the normal points set-up and the rear shocks are Armstrong, replaced a few years ago. The spot lights and air horn are after market extras. Correct, and as explained in the articles, these are period items fitted by the first owner in the early 70s. Finally, unless there's one out there that's been kept in a museum all its life there is probably no such thing as a TR6 that remains exactly how it left the factory in every minute detail, and I’ve never claimed my TR6 to be so. Regards Andrew Edited February 24, 2018 by Andrew Smith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tim D. Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 (edited) All this is intriguing to me as someone who isn't a concourse specialist. Does question the philosophy of concours. If things were fitted by the dealer (eg number plates) using non standard means before registering are the concours acceptable? If there were multiple suppliers to ST but not properly documented is this also an issue for concours judges? Sounds like trickey situations. Cheers Tim Edited February 24, 2018 by Tim D. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ray gill Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 Andrew let your car dealer sell your car now. That is what they do, it's the job they do. Stunning car and I have to say the best colour for a tr6 Pretty as a picture Helen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 I totally don’t understand the concours thing, especially for vehicles like ours that ‘varied’ quite a bit from new. Do have a drive in my car Andrew, i’d love to hear your opinion and comparison with an original and with VUX. Any thoughts on improvements welcome too, as i do like a project :-) Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 In the early 70s I had first hand experience of car PDI (pre delivery inspection) at more than one Triumph dealer, and I would not wish to claim that all TR6s left the factory as they theoretically should have done . . . . . and the same applied to every other Triumph car. The quality control was frankly appalling, the cars were plagued with minor deficiencies in need of correction, and the factory fitment of incorrect component was all too commonplace. As for cars loaded with factory-fitted (as opposed to dealer-fitted) options . . . . . the likelihood of their being delivered correctly, as specified, was negligible. The delay involved in sourcing the proper replacement items could all too easily be 2 or 3 weeks, not just a couple of days. Given the industrial relations situation of the time, component supply to motor manufacturers was a constant struggle - at times just about any sort of make do and mend approach was necessary. For example, oil filter or fuel filter housings might have been three different colours for three different car manufacturers, but in times of need the blue finish supplied normally to A might equally well have been supplied to car makers B and C, rather than their normal grey and green, simply because that was all that was available off the shelf. Simple as that. As for carpets, I do recall one period (1970 or 71) when some Triumphs were arriving with incomplete carpet sets . . . . . and the local trimmer was busy making up replacements from roll carpet, or by modifying surplus carpet from stores stock for other models, or even modifying the carpet removed from slow-selling new models. Remember too just how many 'official' optional extras were dealer fitted, and of course every dealer had their own range of optional extras in addition to the catalogued options. Not every customer liked satin black, and it wasn't unusual to see a new car with the black body areas restored to body colour. Similarly carpet colours might have been changed to suit the customer, even the vinyl trim if required - it wasn't difficult to switch trim from one car to another. Little touches like the application of coach lines, along with extra mirrors, spot fog and reverse lamps, mats, etc etc, were stock in trade for enterprising dealers offering added-value special editions. This is where the anally retentive concours merchants get their heads stuck firmly up their backsides . . . . lost in some absurd vision of Standard Triumph perfection whereby all cars rolled off the line in pristine and perfect order, just like the good book said they should. It wasn't like that, in fact it was anything but like that. Stan Part was a wally whose blokes in brown coats couldn't make two identical components to save his life, the one thing you could rely on was that the chances of any given replacement item needing fettling to fit would be pretty damn high . . . . unlike a FoMoCo part, which fitted first time and just like that. 40 or 50 years on . . . . . nit picking the obscure fine detail of underbonnet is probably the precursor to counting the hairs on the palms of one's hand, followed in due course by talking to oneself in meaningless gibberish and a final retreat to the funny farm. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 Thanks for that Alec, very informative amd entertaining. It’s funny you mention FoMoCo having higher standards as way back i was a Ford man and dont recall having parts not fit or fail early. I also feel quite a lot better about the mongrel status of my car now, its practically ‘as new’ :-) Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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