Graeme Robinson Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Evening all, I'm restoring a 1961 3a (TS76876L) which is in left hand drive form; over the weekend I re installed the pedal box but when I came to fixing the throttle pedal I hit upon a bit of a problem in that in order for the pedal to sit in the right location in the footwell, the left hand bush has to come off the connector (part number 120443 in the Moss book) and as such is effectively sitting on the shaft of the pedal shaft (i.e. just after where it bends round to the horizontal part of the shaft before the location of the connector). What is confusing is that the pedal itself appears to be in the right location i.e. directly above the pedal limit stop screw and the right hand side bush is similarly located in the correct position. The lever assembly (part number 106753) is also well located to connect to the link rod from the carbs. I have attached a photo of the whole pedal assembly which measures 48cm from the bend in the pedal shaft to the end of the connecting bar; incidentally I recognise that the right hand bush is positioned incorrectly in the photo i.e. on the connecting bar to the right of the lever assembly, it is now on the car and correctly positioned with the bush and sandwiched between the two plates to the left hand side of the lever assembly.. The only area that is wrong as far as I can see and doesn't really come out in the photo is that the connector (part number 120443) isn't connected to the connecter bar by a pin. Similarly the hole in the pedal shaft (painted black in the photo) is clear and I assume should likewise be connected to the connecter by a pin? Its impossible to separate the pedal shaft/connecter and connecting bar so I'm assuming that they may have been welded perhaps. Once I connect the plates holding the bushes in place, I'm pretty sure that the assembly will work but the left hand bush will obviously be loose as the hole through the bush is bigger than the pedal shaft itself. It seems to me that I'm going to have to obtain another pedal, connector and connecting bar unless anyone has any other ideas?? Many thanks Graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boxofbits Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) Hi Graeme I've had real trouble following your description of the fault, but the pedal is attached to the shaft by a roll pin, and I cannot see why anyone has welded it unless the pin snapped and cannot be drifted out, or the hole in the pedal has worn too large for the pin to locate properly. Have you TRied to remove the pin with a small punch? The bushing may have worn if bigger than the shaft so would need to be replaced. PS: The parts diagram states that the connector piece joins to both shafts so I would assume there are two roll pins used. Kevin Edited February 12, 2018 by boxofbits Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graeme Robinson Posted February 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Thanks Kevin and apologies for my message being difficult to follow; I did wonder if it would make complete sense but I think you've understood the problem. I agree that the connector piece has to be connected by two pins, one to fix to the connecting bar and the other to the pedal shaft. In truth I cant see where the hole was/is on the joint from the connector to the connecting bar but I guess it could have been filed smooth perhaps? Regardless the hole in the pedal shaft is clear and cant be pushed into the connector any further. The only way that I can locate the left hand bush into its correct position on the bulkhead (i.e. sandwiched between the two plates and fixed by the 4 screws) is for me to push it off the connector and onto the pedal shaft which is thinner than the connector and as such isn't therefore working as it should. Apologies if this isn't clear but I guess that there should be a supply of 2nd hand left hand drive assemblies from owners changing imported cars to R/H drive so hopefully I can obtain a replacement. Graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boxofbits Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Thanks Kevin and apologies for my message being difficult to follow; I did wonder if it would make complete sense but I think you've understood the problem. I agree that the connector piece has to be connected by two pins, one to fix to the connecting bar and the other to the pedal shaft. In truth I cant see where the hole was/is on the joint from the connector to the connecting bar but I guess it could have been filed smooth perhaps? Regardless the hole in the pedal shaft is clear and cant be pushed into the connector any further. The only way that I can locate the left hand bush into its correct position on the bulkhead (i.e. sandwiched between the two plates and fixed by the 4 screws) is for me to push it off the connector and onto the pedal shaft which is thinner than the connector and as such isn't therefore working as it should. Apologies if this isn't clear but I guess that there should be a supply of 2nd hand left hand drive assemblies from owners changing imported cars to R/H drive so hopefully I can obtain a replacement. Graeme Hi Graeme I do wonder if you are actually missing the connector piece 120443, and that the pedal has been pushed directly onto the shaft, hence only one roll pin, and also why the bushing seems to large on the shaft as it won't align properly without the additional connector piece? https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/accelerator-pedal-fittings-tr2-4a.html Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Perhaps Im being thick but in the above picture you have the connector arm on the shaft the wrong side of the right hand bush assembly. The pedal shaft should be assembled in the order from left to right mounting plate for bush, bush, mounting plate for bush, bracket to bulkhead, lever arm to throttle connection (held in place by a Mills pin) then bush mounting plate then bush then finally last bush mounting plate. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boxofbits Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Perhaps Im being thick but in the above picture you have the connector arm on the shaft the wrong side of the right hand bush assembly. The pedal shaft should be assembled in the order from left to right mounting plate for bush, bush, mounting plate for bush, bracket to bulkhead, lever arm to throttle connection (held in place by a Mills pin) then bush mounting plate then bush then finally last bush mounting plate. Stuart. Hi Stuart I think Graeme had said that he realised the bushes and retaining plates were the wrong side of the throttle lever in his picture. I think it might be from what he is saying that there is no single connector piece between pedal and shaft, ( as shown in diagram) as he says he cannot find another roll pin, and as far as I can make out if that's the case then the end of the pedal assembly might have been inserted into the shaft without the connector piece in between, hence the bush not lining up in the right place. Just a theory as no expert on early TR's throttle set-up ! Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graeme Robinson Posted February 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Hi Stuart, I did mention that in the photo the right hand side bush is incorrectly positioned but I have now fitted it correctly in the order as you describe on the car. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 Ok so checking the one I have here from a L/hand drive post 60K car the bush is definitely a press fit on the pedal end of the shaft and there is a Mills pin holding the cross shaft into the bush. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graeme Robinson Posted February 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 Just removed the assembly from the car and taken some further images; as you can see, the hole that is meant to receive the pin from the pedal shaft is clear and the one on the connector isn't. As I mentioned previously, its absolutely solid and I cant free up either the pedal or the connecting bar from the connector. The hole on the connector doesn't appear to be filled with a pin; its just seems to be the connecting bar that is visible through the hole; I wondered if heating it may free it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boxofbits Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 (edited) Hi Graeme Id put the assembly in a vice and heat around that area with a blow torch and drift the shaft from the pedal and it should or will have to come out- no option. Youll have to use a couple of pieces of wood in the jaws as the heat will just dissipate into the vice. Youll then be able to see inside the connector piece and clean the hole, perhaps with a drill exact same diameter as the pedal shaft. Then look inside for the roll pin holes. As long as the pedal fits in the hole properly assemble it in the car first without the roll pin to make sure everything lines up. The pins wont make much or any difference to the alignment. PS are you sure the connector piece hasnt been shortened? Kevin Edited February 13, 2018 by boxofbits Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boxofbits Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 (edited) I hadnt noticed Stuarts reply as posting on my phone, so as Stuart says the pedal is a press fit to the connector. In that case, bar finding another assembly you could cross drill it for another pin if you cant find a replacement . The other question is why has the pedal shaft end got a hole for a pin?! Kevin Edited February 13, 2018 by boxofbits Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 Just to clarify for those that don't know, there is NO roll pin. The Mills pin Stuart mentioned is a tapered pin fitted to a tapered hole in the shaft, as you may expect for a pin with a taper it has to be pressed or tapped in and as you'll also notice access is only available from one direction...so guess which end was tapped in first...yep the taper is facing away from you with the wide end of the pin facing you. They're a bl@@dy nuisance ! and a function of car plant assembly lines where a positive location can be achieved easily and reliably with a minimum of tools and operator skill. The pin on the accelerator linkage has a habit of shearing after the first 35 years of TR man stamping on the throttle. If you can find the hole position drill out the Mills pin and replace with a hardened roll pin of the appropriate size (I seem to remember 1/8 dia does the trick). Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boxofbits Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 There you go Graeme, with Stuart and Mick's input also it should be onwards and upwards and as Mick has suggested drill out and fit roll pins. Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graeme Robinson Posted February 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 with a little help from a blow torch I managed to remove the connector from the shaft only to find that what I have is in fact one complete pedal and connector bar assembly with a single hole to locate the connector/bush in a fixed position. From what I can see from the images in various manuals (see attached example) there should 3 separate pieces; item 1) a pedal shaft which in turn is connected to item 2) the connecting bar by item 3) a connector which itself then has two holes to receive pins which join everything together. Having re assembled everything on the car, the whole assembly is too short by around an inch which leads me to assume that what I have (apart from the right hand bush & connector to carb link) is for another vehicle perhaps, any ideas? Graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graeme Robinson Posted February 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 Incidentally, for clarity I have positioned the thinner part of the connector (which the bush is located onto) pointing towards the pedal as opposed to how I am holding it in the picture Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boxofbits Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 (edited) with a little help from a blow torch I managed to remove the connector from the shaft only to find that what I have is in fact one complete pedal and connector bar assembly with a single hole to locate the connector/bush in a fixed position. From what I can see from the images in various manuals (see attached example) there should 3 separate pieces; item 1) a pedal shaft which in turn is connected to item 2) the connecting bar by item 3) a connector which itself then has two holes to receive pins which join everything together. Having re assembled everything on the car, the whole assembly is too short by around an inch which leads me to assume that what I have (apart from the right hand bush & connector to carb link) is for another vehicle perhaps, any ideas? Graeme The image on the left does not seem to relate to your car ( see my link to the parts manual) . The sleeve ( connector) which is a separate part is an interference fit into the pedal, but locates using a mills pin in the cross shaft. The sleeve for your model does not have two pins, as shown in correct parts list ( mills pins not roll pins as Stuart's post) so that must relate to different model. You seem to have the right parts but is the pedal itself correct as it has a hole for a pin? (There are two pedals listed for LHD) Kevin Edited February 13, 2018 by boxofbits Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 There is an early and a late pedal for L/hand drive cars and an early and late connector so you may have a mix of the two. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnhodges Posted February 14, 2018 Report Share Posted February 14, 2018 Graeme I should have a L/H throttle assembly if you need it. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graeme Robinson Posted February 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 That's very decent of you John; I may need to take you up on this but I'm going to try and re-position the connector/shaft and then drill a new hole and insert a fresh pin accordingly; hopefully this will do the trick which I think is pretty much what Mick has suggested. I hope to give this a go tomorrow so fingers crossed!! I still cant work out how it's come to this as it must gave been on the car previously in this set up so I'm not sure what has changed. Incidentally, are the plates that clamp the bush in place positioned on the engine bay side or within the footwell? Also, Revingtons have suggested that the correct fixings are self tapping screws but this doesn't seem right to me shouldn't they be a nut & bolt fixing? Many thanks for all of the contributions and help Graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boxofbits Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 Graeme You will need to make sure you drill through the pedal and sleeve in exactly the right place, with the return Spring attached and the pedal in the right place. I think you'd be better off taking up John's offer of a correct pedal, especially as the two items were pressed together at the factory, so that the roll pin holes and the bell crank for the throttle are all in correct alignment. The retaining bolts for the plates do not have nuts, but I believe have a coarse tapping tapered thread directly gripping in the hole something like spire bolts. Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 I think you'd be better off taking up John's offer of a correct pedal, especially as the two items were pressed together at the factory, so that the roll pin holes and the bell crank for the throttle are all in correct alignment. Kevin ^ ^ ^ Makes good sense. AlanR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnhodges Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 Graeme I haven't found the L/H throttle yet, so if you can fixing yours might be best bet. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graeme Robinson Posted February 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 I'll bear this in mind Kevin but unless I'm missing something I would have thought that the alignment of the connector/sleeve to the left hand bush is independent of the right hand bush which I recognise must be in correct alignment to the carb linkage. Surely the left hand connector/sleeve is there merely to position the bush which rotates around the shaft? Not sure if this is relevant but my arrangement is different to what is shown in the earlier posted diagram which is in three parts whereas mine is a one piece shaft. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.