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Finally bitten the bullet and the carbs are off for rebuild at Andrew Turner, this brings me to the point of this post. Now that I have access I was going to simply do a +ve to -ve earth conversion, but was just wondering about doing an alternator conversion instead, whilst I have easy access. thoughts anyone ? If I do go down the alternator route I'm not planning to run a light bar the would shame an HGV, a small improvement in output will suffice. Anybody recommend a specific supplier 'kit' I know number of the suppliers do them, just looking for one that is EASY to fit.

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Hi Graham,

your dynamo gives out about 22amps max. any alternator at about 40amps or greater will see you through.

They are all easy to fit but do ensure that you get all the instructions. Wiring diagram needs to be clear as you will be doing away with the control box and joining a good few wires.

You need a lefthand alternator.

 

The very modern Denso alts have a good reputation but so does the old fashion ACR types.

 

I'm sure there is a queue forming to give advice

 

Roger

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Assuming yours is still wide-belt Graham, you have to decide whether to use the existing dynamo pulley with an alternator, source a wide-belt alternator pulley or go with a narrow-belt conversion. That may be a lot more complicated to fit as you would probably have to take the radiator out for access to the crank extension. There are lots of old threads on the topic - worth a search of the forum.

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Have a look at Section J4 in the Technicalities CD (taken from TR Action 118), and the article about Moss alternator kits in TR Action 248 (March 2011) which can be read on-line on the TR Register's website.

Narrow belt conversion is well worthwhile, but see Rob's comment in post #3, above.

Ian Cornish

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This is the Nippon Denso Kubota garden tractor unit that is being fitted these days - I have one on my TR3. - I had to machine the standard wide belt pulley from the dynamo, where the nut sits, to get more clearance for a socket when the holding nut is fitted. Simple if you have a lath * alternative is a narrow belt conversion.

 

Try one of these

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Denso-Kubota-40-Amp-Alternator-With-Built-In-Regulator-3-Pin-Plug-Included-New/302618810543?hash=item46757c98af:g:8HcAAOSwgQ9VnRFB

 

plus one of these

http://www.racetorations.co.uk/triumphs-c56/tr2-c3/tr2-engine-c12/racetorations-tr2-4a-fitting-kit-alternator-p460

 

You will also need a wiring diag . try this http://www.racemettleltd.co.uk/fitalt.html

 

Peter W

 

PS I still run the standard sized wide belt, and I had to add an extra wire from the ignition side of the fuse box to energise the alternator.

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
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Suplimentary question but with a 'lower' output alternator of around 40-45 amps do I need to be concerned about overloading the loom ?

Edited by Graham
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Hi Graham,

the alternator will only supply what is asked of it.

All your items that need powering up will not change so the loom will see no difference.

 

If you start going silly and fitting power hungry devices at the ends of the loom then you will need to think about ti..

 

Another way of looking at it - how much power will the battery send out under a serious short. The alternator will be nowhere near this.

 

Roger

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I have a Suzuki Swift (around the late 90s models) generator in my car. A lot cheaper than the Denso's - at least at that time. I only asked for a Suzuki item and didn't tell them it was going to be installed into a classic car. Must have lowered the price!

 

Menno

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I have one of the Nippon Denso's as highlighted by Peter W.

 

I still have the original wiring for the ammeter and so can see what output is at any time. When I start the car after a lay up, I take the plugs out and spin the oil pressure up on the starter motor first - this takes a while. When I then start the car, the battery is probably about as discharged as it ever gets and the ammeter will briefly show 30 amps which very quickly drops to somewhere between 10 and 15.

 

In other words, a 40 amp alternator isn't going to be a problem.

 

Rgds Ian

 

PS If it is a Kubota one with the plug and terminals as illustrated in the little diagram on the side of it, then you can link two of the terminals together and forget about one altogether. I can't remember which at the moment because it was a while ago that I did it and my memory isn't what it used to be. If you would like me to look up and send you the details, let me know.

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I use a plug in volt meter

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hakkin-2-in1-Car-12V-Cigarette-Lighter-Plug-LED-Dual-Digital-Voltmeter-Temper/192381699479?epid=1193633787&hash=item2ccad7c597:g:lFoAAOSwIFtaIGcG

 

in an accessory socket (cigar lighter)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-24V-20A-Cigar-Lighter-Accessory-Power-Supply-Socket-Durite-0-601-01/221214835614?epid=2259768361&hash=item33816e839e:g:1G4AAOSw74FXPbBz

 

Keeps me informed of what condition the battery voltage is.

Peter W

PS - Car is NEGATIVE earth, which means I can use most modern accessories like satnav, phone charger etc.

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This is the Nippon Denso Kubota garden tractor unit that is being fitted these days - I have one on my TR3. - I had to machine the standard wide belt pulley from the dynamo, where the nut sits, to get more clearance for a socket when the holding nut is fitted. Simple if you have a lath * alternative is a narrow belt conversion.

 

Try one of these

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Denso-Kubota-40-Amp-Alternator-With-Built-In-Regulator-3-Pin-Plug-Included-New/302618810543?hash=item46757c98af:g:8HcAAOSwgQ9VnRFB

 

plus one of these

http://www.racetorations.co.uk/triumphs-c56/tr2-c3/tr2-engine-c12/racetorations-tr2-4a-fitting-kit-alternator-p460

 

You will also need a wiring diag . try this http://www.racemettleltd.co.uk/fitalt.html

 

Peter W

 

PS I still run the standard sized wide belt, and I had to add an extra wire from the ignition side of the fuse box to energise the alternator.

Pete been having a look at this, the alternator you suggest appears to have 4 terminals. A big one marked 'B' plus the 3 terminals on the plug. The race metal wiring diagrams only show 2 connections on the alternator. What wire should go where ?

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For a four-connection alternator -

 

B goes to the battery (via the ammeter)

L goes to the ignition warning lamp

I goes to the ignition switch

S goes to the battery as the voltage sense line.

 

You could link S to B at the alternator but the system will not then compensate for voltage drop on the feed to the battery.

 

You will need to re-wire some of the connections at the existing voltage regulator and the ignition warning lamp but the details depend on what alternator you buy.

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For the Nippon Denso/Kubota shown on ebay the connections are

 

P = Pulse which is for a tachometer so it's not used on a TR (well it isn't on mine and works fine)

IG = ignition for field excitation

L = Charge lamp

 

Rgds Ian

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The one I have has two small wires in the plug plus a big screwed terminal. Check the item I highlighted is correct mounting lug positions. See Brise for dimensions

 

Peter W

PS. See http://www.brise.co.uk/Denso-5305.html. The featured one I gave looks very similar to the Brise item.

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
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Could somebody just confirm for me that once the alternator is physically installed and the control box wiring is modified as per Tom's diagram above, then all I should have to do is flip the battery (and battery terminal clamps) around, then reverse the coil and ammeter connections, and hey presto I should have a -ve earth alternator equipped TR3 ..................

 

Just don't want a 'hey presto melted loom TR3!'

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Yes that is all Graham - unless you have anything like an electric cooling fan that may need reversing too, depending on type.

Of course positive-earth LED bulbs, electronic ignition or a radio would be most unhappy about the change.

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Yes that is all Graham - unless you have anything like an electric cooling fan that may need reversing too, depending on type.

Of course positive-earth LED bulbs, electronic ignition or a radio would be most unhappy about the change.

I can confirm that UOV has precisely................none of those, :rolleyes:

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Just got the alternator fitted, its an 'ACR' type and uses the old wide belt pulley. Got it all bolted up, but it looks like the alternator pulley is forward of the water pump pulley. A bit odd as the kit says that I may have to put washer on the mounting pedestal to bring the alternator forwards. I'm guessing I need to pull it all out and reduce the length of the pedestal, am I correct ?

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They often need a few washers one way or another to get them to line up, the adjuster arm may well need a cut and shut to get the angle right (easier and cheaper than the expensive fitting kits)

Stuart.

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When my TR4 was re-built, some 25 years ago, a Lucas LRA101 (as used on the TR7) was fitted. This is ACR type and the only modification required was to the mounting bracket at bottom rear - the detail of the modification is shown in the drawing in Section J4 of the Technicalities CD (and in TR Action 118). I was using the wide belt back then, and all 3 pulleys lined up correctly without any need for packing washers. When the water pump died in 1998, I took the opportunity to switch to narrow pulleys and belt, and, again, everything aligned properly.

Ian Cornish

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  • 2 weeks later...

Graham,

putting aside cable current capacity, it is possible to retain the regulator and associated generator wiring if you want apparent originality. Remove of all the regulator entrails and add two links under the terminals. The space inside can be used for spares/tools/alarms etc.

 

With a standard loom, H4 Halogens and a Pacit fan I have continued to use my standard wiring loom (c. 1978 from C&B) with and ACR17 alternator. I did the math at the time and concluded the cables were all up to it without relays etc. That was >20 years ago and all has been OK.

 

I can post the regulator mods if interested, although if you are going to run several kW of lighting this may not be for you!

MIke

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