AJ2014 Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 First short door was Oct 1954 - TS4002 according to Bill's book Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McCormack Posted January 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2018 Thank you all. I have just got off the phone from Viv Paine who says hi to all his friends on this forum. I have seen the catalogue diagram previously but believe it to be a later diagram rather than a factory one from when they were built. I have not seen a car with a curved seal as per the catalogue diagram, nor any sign on a car that one was fitted like this. It is possible that Triumph put out a mod later in the piece but I have not seen a long door car with any clips for a seal and Viv confirms that the long doors did not have clips. His recollection is the doors with seals have them glued on as per the photo from Pogo above. I have seen other pictures with seals glued on in various positions on this part of the door. It appears this was not original but an after market mod by owners. I think it is important to get this right for my car so am still seeking a definitive answer.I am hopeful someone has a photo or 100% reliable knowledge one way or the other. I visited the paint shop today. He is finishing panel alignment and the body tub should get finished and painted in the next couple of weeks. I will bring the chassis home while the body tub and panels are being painted and install the engine and gearbox (I picked the latter up today from being overhauled). The chassis then goes back for the body fitment and final panel fit and alignment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted January 24, 2018 Report Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) Here is a photo of the Parts Manual from which I took the illustration. This is a First Edition Parts Manual and clearly shows the seal as per my previous post. Apologies for the duplicate images...no idea how they are there? Edited January 24, 2018 by iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McCormack Posted January 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Thanks iain. I just this morning received trusted advice that the seal wasn't originally fitted to long door cars. This document shows it was and it is pretty robust evidence. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) This is a First Edition Parts Manual and clearly shows the seal as per my previous post. IMG_2297.jpgIMG_2298.jpg First edition is great - but what was the date of printing? Factory Parts manuals have been known to show updates as being original fitting. AlanR Edited January 25, 2018 by TR 2100 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 John, I had the chance to speak to Tom Householder about early door seals, and his research many years ago showed (as he recalls without checking old notes) that early cars had a squarish rubber seal glued to the door bottoms. He has in one of his barns the doors taken off TS7XX years ago that may still have the seals attached, and he may have other photos. He gave me a few names of people you could correspond with who were part of researching really old cars back then -- see your pm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McCormack Posted January 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 John The long doors do have a seal along the bottom. I have a photo somewhere of mine (Oct 1954 - just a little before yours) - I'll dig it out and upload it. EDIT - found it. It looks like it may be glued (or something) on as the seal is very 'wavy' at one end. Roger Any chance of a shot showing the cross section of that rubber seal? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pogo Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Any chance of a shot showing the cross section of that rubber seal? Is this any good? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted January 26, 2018 Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) First edition is great - but what was the date of printing? Factory Parts manuals have been known to show updates as being original fitting. AlanR Alan, I take your point, the only clue to printing date is on the last page.....FGR/TR2 --12/54 However there are no illustrations of the short door, although the transition is recorded at TS4001 to TS4200 . There is no description of the difference either. Part number 900492/1 fitted up to TS4001 (RH and LH doors). Part numbers 900662/1 Fitted from TS4002. It would appear that most production changes are recorded with a "Fitted up to TSXXX only" or "Fitted from Commisssion Number TSXXX and future". There is no such comment against the part number for the Rubber seal Iain Edited January 26, 2018 by iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted January 26, 2018 Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 The posts from Pogo above would be sufficient to convince me that a seal was fitted to the long door. There were some factory engineering change books acquired by the Register some 40 years ago that may give some further information, though finding those books now is another matter. AlanR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 26, 2018 Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 Alan, I take your point, the only clue to printing date is on the last page.....FGR/TR2 --12/54 However there are no illustrations of the short door, although the transition is recorded at TS4001 to TS4200 . There is no description of the difference either. Part number 900492/1 fitted up to TS4001 (RH and LH doors). Part numbers 900662/1 Fitted from TS4002. It would appear that most production changes are recorded with a "Fitted up to TSXXX only" or "Fitted from Commisssion Number TSXXX and future". There is no such comment against the part number for the Rubber seal Iain Most but not all changes are noted and if the print date is 12/54 That may well be a later (albeit still 1st) edition. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McCormack Posted January 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 Yep, I am convinced of the seal. The Pogo photo is probably the closest I will get to the correct profile. I am very fortunate to get the opportunity to restore a rare car to as close as is practicable to how it left the factory, or maybe better described as how the factory would have liked it to leave the factory. As the restoration progresses there will be myriad details to be resolved and I will be indebted to the knowledge of TR Register UK members to get it right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pogo Posted January 27, 2018 Report Share Posted January 27, 2018 Another one - Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MJF Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 Just to confuse the issue further my Spare Parts Catalogue, Part No 501653 Amendment 1, dated May 1961, has the identical plate AK illustration as Iain’s, but with detailed differences for the part numbers. This would imply to me the lower door seal was not fitted until TS 22014, which was the first TR3A on 17 Sep 57. I am currently restoring an early long door 2. Based I this I am not planning to include lower door seals; that is unless I find water ingress an issue, when I may fit stick on seals, which is possibly what the original owners did. Martin Spare Parts Cat 4th edition Amend1 May1961 page 92.pdf Spare Parts Cat 4th edition Amend1 May1961 plate AK.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McCormack Posted January 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 Just to confuse the issue further my Spare Parts Catalogue, Part No 501653 Amendment 1, dated May 1961, has the identical plate AK illustration as Iain’s, but with detailed differences for the part numbers. This would imply to me the lower door seal was not fitted until TS 22014, which was the first TR3A on 17 Sep 57. I am currently restoring an early long door 2. Based I this I am not planning to include lower door seals; that is unless I find water ingress an issue, when I may fit stick on seals, which is possibly what the original owners did. Hi Martin, I can't follow your finding the seal wasn't fitted to long door cars. The plate diagram attached to your post clearly shows a seal on the long door and the 1st Ed parts list clearly shows the seal with a part number. My short door TR2 TS5038O has its original doors and it has the clips and seal on the bottom of the door. The seal on the top of the door between the scuttle and door was added after my car was made. The seals/trim on page 92 noted as starting after 22013 I think refer to the seals/trim on the aft edge of the door. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 Martin, Based on all the data above, my best guess would be that the long door did have a seal stuck on. The factory, in producing the Parts Books, would reflect their policy at the time and I think the absence of a seal for the long door in later catalogues reflects it not being serviced rather than never being fitted. Parts Catalogues can be suspect in this respect. But - as you say - if it's a seal that is stuck on, this can be done later - and would also assist in reducing vibration. AlanR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pogo Posted January 30, 2018 Report Share Posted January 30, 2018 and would also assist in reducing vibration. AlanR Yeh - doesn't work on stopping vibration let me tell you! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McCormack Posted February 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 Martin, Based on all the data above, my best guess would be that the long door did have a seal stuck on. The factory, in producing the Parts Books, would reflect their policy at the time and I think the absence of a seal for the long door in later catalogues reflects it not being serviced rather than never being fitted. Parts Catalogues can be suspect in this respect. But - as you say - if it's a seal that is stuck on, this can be done later - and would also assist in reducing vibration. AlanR I was talking yesterday with an elder down here who owned TR2s in the very early days. He said from his recollection the seal on the long door proved to be a mud trap and many owners removed it. He thought the factory did stop fitting them until the short door cars started. This might explain it not being on later parts lists? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 I was talking yesterday with an elder down here who owned TR2s in the very early days. He said from his recollection the seal on the long door proved to be a mud trap and many owners removed it. He thought the factory did stop fitting them until the short door cars started. This might explain it not being on later parts lists? It certainly would. Totally logical explanation for what appeared to be an anomaly. AlanR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MJF Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) That sounds a very sensible explanation for the discrepancies in the parts listings. I still plan on building mine without these seals, being stick on they can always be fitted later. Isn’t it great we still have some access to those who ran our cars originally? Martin Edited February 1, 2018 by MJF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McCormack Posted February 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 That sounds a very sensible explanation for the discrepancies in the parts listings. I still plan on building mine without these seals, being stick on they can always be fitted later. Isn’t it great we still have some access to those who ran our cars originally? Martin Martin, What commission number is your car? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MJF Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 Hi John, My commission number is TS2453L. I bought it off John Saunders in 2013, who at the time had recently imported it from the US, but I didn't have time to start the restoration until Summer 2016. Martin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McCormack Posted February 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Hi all, here are a couple of photos of my restoration. Milestones this week were the engine and gearbox being reattached to the chassis for the first time in 50 years and the body tub repairs being finished and painting started. The engine was totally rebuilt with new pistons, liners, beariings, seals, cylinder head etc for the previous owner. I had the gearbox and diff overhauled. The gearbox needs a polish up.The next step is install and connect up the radiator, manually pump oil into the engine's bottom end (already done by rotating the oil pump with a hand drill but as the engine has been sitting since 2013 I'll do it again to make sure), get the ignition timing set up, fit the starter, connect a battery and start her up. I'm overhauling the starter now.The body is being done by The Classic Factory in Smithfield, Sydney and when finished will be fitted to the chassis. Final assembly of wiring, dashboard, upholstery, fuel system, hydraulics etc should take another year or so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 High port head then ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McCormack Posted February 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 High port head then ? Came with the car and I will run it with this head for the time being. I have a low port head and 1 1/2" carbies to suit the car but they need rebuilding before I fit them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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