2 speed wiper motor wiring

[MKTR]

Hi All,

 

I acquired a 2 speed wiper motor some years ago for my TR4 and am only just getting around to fitting it over this winter. I have a switch and a wiring diagram but I cannot tell what wires I will be connecting to in the motor's wire push connectors. The old wires are so faded that I cannot tell which is which apart from the earth wires. I have tried stripping back the plastic covering but all the colours just look grey to me.

 

Can anyone describe or provide a picture of where the 3 different coloured wires go to in/on the motor housing?

 

Many thanks,

 

Mark

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

If you cannot see the wire colours externally, try removing the end cover of the motor to see if the wiring inside the motor still has obviously coloured sheathing. - Two long screws slot headed screws o the aluminum end cover - Only lift off the end cover do not disturb the main casing or you may cause the brushes to become unseated.

 

Try these links for other help:-

http://tr4a.weebly.com/uploads/2/1/9/8/21980360/two-speed.pdf

http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=23531

http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/32308-wiper-motor-problem/page-2

http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/21654-wiper-switch-wiring/

 

Cheers

Peter W

[tthomson]

Hi Mark,

 

Four wires go to the two speed DR3A motor.

 

Green is 12 Volt supply from ignition via a fuse and needs to connect to the green wire on the motor

Black is ground and is connected to any part of the casing of the motor

The other two wires connect from the motor to the switch.

 

Only the green wire from the loom, should have power on it.

When the green wire is disconnected from the motor, the other wires should register 0 volts.

 

The motor runs by switching the two switch wires to ground, but be very careful

 

Fast operation of the motor connects both these wires to ground

Slow operations connects only one wire to ground.

It is important that you don't run the fast operation with only one wire to ground for more than 10 seconds.

 

To work out which is the slow wire:

1. Connect the green wire from the loom to the green wire on the motor.

2. Acting quickly so you do not damage the field winding, connect one of the wires to ground, then connect the other wire to ground as well.

3. If the motor increases speed, the slow wire is the first wire you connected to ground

If the motor does not change speed, the slow wire is the second wire you connected to ground.

4. Disconnect both wires, noting which was which.

 

Make sure the switch can handle single ground and twin ground options so it works correctly without damaging the motor field winding.

 

Good luck TT

[AlanT]

Every single motor will by now have unidentifiable colours. This is one reason I'm always rewiring them.

 

Find the brush arm that is connected to the parker-cap. This one originally had a RED wire.

The other brush arm had the GREEN wire.

 

This leaves one wire that goes direct to the field-coil. Originally had a BROWN wire.

 

Often the switch-wiring causes a problem. Several ways kind of work but only this is really free of probllems.

 

 

And if you don't have the correct switch GIVE-UP until you do. Easily available on eBay from Lucas Repro.

 

Be aware that there is some slightly incorrect information in this thread. PM me if you are in doubt.

Edited December 20, 2017 by AlanT

[ChrisR-4A]

Alan, I decided years ago ( maybe right or wrong) that the fast speed on my 4A was of little use and wired the 2 speed wiper to a TR 4 single action switch using the slower speed only.

It has worked ok for over 15 years but I can't remember what I did with the wires. Can you advise what is correct if only one speed (slower) is required

Thanks Chris

[AlanT]

You ground BOTH the RED and BROWN.

 

I often get guys to join these at the motor with a "double-bullet" female connector when doing remote fault diagnosis.

 

FAST mode works OK IF you wire the switch like the photo. Otherwise you can get start-up problems.

 

There is also an amusing wiring that means the motor takes current in the field-winding in the OFF position.

[MKTR]

Thank you to all for your insight. This gives me lots to think about and to give a go. let's hope there is some colour left inside the cap.

[TR 2100]

Hi Mark,

 

Four wires go to the two speed DR3A motor.

 

Green is 12 Volt supply from ignition via a fuse and needs to connect to the green wire on the motor

Black is ground and is connected to any part of the casing of the motor

The other two wires connect from the motor to the switch.

 

Only the green wire from the loom, should have power on it.

When the green wire is disconnected from the motor, the other wires should register 0 volts.

 

The motor runs by switching the two switch wires to ground, but be very careful

 

Fast operation of the motor connects both these wires to ground

Slow operations connects only one wire to ground.

It is important that you don't run the fast operation with only one wire to ground for more than 10 seconds.

 

To work out which is the slow wire:

1. Connect the green wire from the loom to the green wire on the motor.

2. Acting quickly so you do not damage the field winding, connect one of the wires to ground, then connect the other wire to ground as well.

3. If the motor increases speed, the slow wire is the first wire you connected to ground

If the motor does not change speed, the slow wire is the second wire you connected to ground.

4. Disconnect both wires, noting which was which.

 

Make sure the switch can handle single ground and twin ground options so it works correctly without damaging the motor field winding.

 

Good luck TT

 

I thought the DR3A was single speed,

and that the two speed was a DR3.

 

Do I need educating?

 

AlanR

[AlanT]

The two-speed DR3's you are thinking of, are the 75310 reverse-parking type, found on Jaguars.

 

The original 4A motor 75568 is marked DR3A.

 

Don't ask me EXACTLY what splits a DR3 from a DR3A. I don't know and it does not matter. I'm not sure Lucas were totally consistent about this. Maybe it's the type of self-parker.

 

All that actually matters is the gear, the position of the crank-pin sets the sweep angle.

The other bits interchange and in many cases HAVE ALREADY been interchanged, by somebody at some time.

 

I try not to do this and usually keep them together, as I got them. But most re-builders just take everything to bits, clean the bits and then just rebuild, as bits come to hand. This is quicker and easier.

 

I bag up the bits and work them one at a time. Sometimes, of course, I have to bring in a replacement part.

 

This used to be the only way I could fix an armature. But now I rebuild these, if required and put them back in the same motor.

[TR 2100]

Alan,

 

Thanks for that - it explains a mystery that has been

going on (in my mind!) for years.

 

I picked up a DR3 wiper motor yonks ago, also the

wiring loom and switch - a circular switch with some

7 leads to connect to the motor.

 

When I gave the motor and switch to the restorer

of my TR4, I was told it was the wrong motor and

the switch was no use either.

 

Must dig it out and eBay it - should be worth a bit

as a package to some Jag owner.

 

AlanR

[MKTR]

Every single motor will by now have unidentifiable colours. This is one reason I'm always rewiring them.

 

Find the brush arm that is connected to the parker-cap. This one originally had a RED wire.

The other brush arm had the GREEN wire.

 

This leaves one wire that goes direct to the field-coil. Originally had a BROWN wire.

 

Often the switch-wiring causes a problem. Several ways kind of work but only this is really free of probllems.

 

 

And if you don't have the correct switch GIVE-UP until you do. Easily available on eBay from Lucas Repro.

 

Be aware that there is some slightly incorrect information in this thread. PM me if you are in doubt.

Hi Alan - to help other readers can you explain what is incorrect in the thread.

 

I aslo found this picture which I think is a good comparison for switch wires:

 

[AlanT]

For SLOW you ground BOTH RED and BROWN

 

For FAST you ground RED

 

You always have to power the armature. If you ground BROWN and don't ground RED the you only power the field.

 

They will ONLY JUST start from stationary in FAST mode. If they stall then you are cooking the armature at 10A.

[AlanT]

An un-restored DR3, 75310 for RHD Jaguar MK2, will make £60-£80 in eBay.

 

Normally what comes up most often are 75325.

These sweep the correct angle for a Jaguar but come from Rovers and park IN not OUT.

 

This is actually OK for a LHD car and sometimes find their way to the US or Germany.

[ChrisR-4A]

For SLOW you ground BOTH RED and BROWN

 

For FAST you ground RED

 

You always have to power the armature. If you ground BROWN and don't ground RED the you only power the field.

 

They will ONLY JUST start from stationary in FAST mode. If they stall then you are cooking the armature at 10A.

Thanks Alan, yes that's what I have for single speed, which I use in conjunction with a spring loaded touch to make switch on a plinth just below the crash pad for giving just a single wipe. Simple to use and easy to reach if left hand is resting on your knee.

Chris

Edited December 23, 2017 by potts4a

[harrytr5]

Every single motor will by now have unidentifiable colours. This is one reason I'm always rewiring them.

 

Find the brush arm that is connected to the parker-cap. This one originally had a RED wire.

The other brush arm had the GREEN wire.

 

This leaves one wire that goes direct to the field-coil. Originally had a BROWN wire.

 

Often the switch-wiring causes a problem. Several ways kind of work but only this is really free of probllems.

 

 

And if you don't have the correct switch GIVE-UP until you do. Easily available on eBay from Lucas Repro.

 

Be aware that there is some slightly incorrect information in this thread. PM me if you are in doubt.

Thanks Alan,

Pictorial certainly works for me.

Regards Harry

[tthomson]

Alan,

 

You are correct of course, and I was responding at a rush from memory.

 

TT

[AlanT]

A good thing to remember is that the RED parker-wire and the RED switch-wire meet at the brush terminal.

 

For a while I thought this meant that they would park at FAST speed. But they don't.

This is because in the OFF position, the correct switch connections also take the BROWN wire to ground.

 

If you get this wrong then you may try to park at FAST speed.

 

Sometimes they will be going fast enough to jump the gap in the parker-switch and go around again. Sometimes they will just go round and round.

 

This happens a lot when bench-testing and is why I use the right switch to test them, these days.

[peejay4A]

+1 for Alans explanation. My wipers used to park fast until I realised the error of my ways resulting from his excellent work.

 

Edit. And I still cant put apostrophes in.

Edited December 24, 2017 by peejay4A

[AlanT]

Thanks Pete and Happy Christmas.

 

If you think these are a pain to wire, then try a Jaguar. There are another two or three layers of complexity.

[ricky30dk]

+1 for making sure the switch works before fault-finding : of the three in my bits box, two were defective......

If anyone has figured out how to connect the Smartscreen module from Moss, I would love to hear from you - it’ll be the last snag on my  rewire after I figure out how to get the Wosp high-torque starter to actually do something.

[AlanT]

These units switch the 12V supply, the motors want a switch in the ground side.

One way to fix this is to use a relay.  Drive the coil from the Smartscreen.  Use the relay contacts to switch the motor.

 

 

[peejay4A]

If you’re feeling adventurous you can use a type 99 relay from the VW parts bin and get programmed wash/wipe assuming you have electric screen wash. 

[ricky30dk]

thanks Alan - I will give that a go

Pete - I do have electric screen wash.....thanks for the idea

[AlanT]

It's not obvious but when in the OFF position the wiper switch joins the RED and BROWN wires.  This is so that the motor will park SLOWLY. You've got to wire it like my photo above to get this.

So the simplest possible relay that flicks the RED wire to ground will take it round again via the parker contact.

A few years back I did the design for a unit that had a MOSFET to ground the RED wire.

I packed up working on this when I realised that the trailing edge of the parkers is always eroded by the arc, created by breaking the circuit, which is of course inductive.

This effect would be worse if you used it for intermittent-wipe.

Now if you just did this for yourself and now and again had to fix the brass disc in the parker, well that's no problem.

But I was considering doing these for sale and didn't want a load of moans about burnt parkers.

 

 

[HEALEYMAN]

HAVE READ AND SEEN SEVERAL VERSIONS OF WIRING TR4A 2- SPEED WIPERS. HAVE NOT SEEN OR HEARD ANY TWO THE SAME. I HAVE THE CORRECT NUMBER AND COLORS ACCORDING TO WHAT IS WRITTEN HERE. I HAVE ABOUT THREE VERSIONS OF WHAT PIN NUMBERS THE COLORED WIRES ARE SUPPOSED TO CONNECT TO. I HAVE THE SWITCH WITH FIVE BLADES VISIBLE,1-4-6-7-8. 1 AND 7 ARE SHORTED TOGETHER ALL THE TIME, NO MATTER IF SWITCH IS IN ,OUT FIRST PULL OR OUT SECOND PULL. I NEED TO KNOW FOR SURE BEFORE I BURN OR FRY SOMETHING