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qim

500 Miles Rally (Lisbon to Oporto)

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Hi


I'm thinking of doing the regularity rally for Classics, "500 Milhas ACP" (500 miles ACP = the Portuguese equivalent of the UK RAC), but I am worried about a couple of things:


1- will I endure it? I tend to fall asleep in the evening, and already did it twice in the last year (once in the afternoon) driving alone in a modern car). The fact that my daughter would be with me, maybe will solve that problem.


2- My understanding is that the first entry will leave Lisbon at 7am (I would need to get up around 5am) and is supposed to arrive near Oporto around 21,30. That means driving for a couple of hours after dark. Sunset is at 20,30. Will I have enough light for a rally? How can I improve it? Will my inexperienced daughter be able to see the Road Book, Time Card, stopwatch, etc?.


Nothing that you can do regarding my alertness (pills?), but what could be done regarding lighting and the navigator?



Thanks


Camilo


PS- the rally starts in Lisbon,on 28th April, goes inland and returns to the coast near Oporto. With lunch (I would try to get an hour or two sleep, then) it is about 16 hours and 700Km.


This was the entry list for the last one:



Edited by qim

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Hi Camillo,

 

First, if you haven't already, I'd recommend reading the regulations very thoroughly and talking to the organisers to get a clear understanding of what the event is actually like in terms of driving, roads, speeds, etc.

 

I'd be extremely surprised if you have any problems about falling asleep - rallies are usually far too busy!! Tiredness, on the other hand, is a different matter. See first paragraph for help on what level of weariness you might face.

 

As far as lighting is concerned, the best and simplest thing I'd recommend would be to upgrade your existing headlights with something like Cibie/valeo H4 lamps and Oscar nightbreaker bulbs. These should cover basic needs. I'd also recommend fitting a relay system to ensure you are getting max voltage to the bulbs - don't forget to renew the earths too. Moss do a kit, I think, but there have been threads on the Forum with wiring diagrams if you are happy to do it yourself.

 

These changes are pretty simple and reversible (although if it were me, I'd never reverse this unless you need originality for shows or something).

 

Let us know what you think and any questions you have or help you need.

 

Cheers,

Tim

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P.S. for your daughter, the easiest way to ensure she can see everything in the car is for her to use a headlamp (lamp worn on her head). Ideally get one with variable brightness.

 

Loads of navigators use them.

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qim,

With respect, would this be your first endurance rally?

In the UK lots of clubs organise night events, 12 rallies, scatter rallies. They are much shorter, only a few hours, and would let you work up your navaigation skills and to know the kit you need. A popular item is the Potti (!), an enclosed, internally lit map magnifier, but if you can find local clubs that do these events, and join in, I'm sure you'll get lots of advice.

If these occur in Portugal, start with them!

John

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Thanks Tim

 

On the assumption that you don't read Portuguese I translated the bits that matter to me at the moment in

 

Art. 2 - DESCRIÇÃO
O rali é composto por uma prova de estrada com itinerário secreto, sendo o percurso descrito no caderno de itinerário
entregue à partida de cada secção.
Ao longo do itinerário serão disputadas provas de classificação dos seguintes tipos:
 Provas de Regularidade em Estrada (PRE)
 Provas de Regularidade por Sectores (PRS)
Percurso total Cerca de 730 Km
Etapas 2
Secções 4
Provas de Classificação (extensão) 20 (cerca de 160 Km)
Piso das Provas de Classificação Asfalt
Rough translation
It is a road rally with secret itinerary given at the start of each section
There will be test along the ralLy: PRE (Regularity tests on road); PRS (Regualarity per Sector)
Itenerary: aprox 730Km
2 Stages
4 Sectors
Tests for classification (extension) 20 (around 160 Km) I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS (I expect there were 20 tests that totalled 160Km. Does that mean that I can drive as I like for the remainder, other than maybe having to arrive at the end of each Sector on time?
Rally surface; asphalt
Other Than this, some of the Tests ask for speeds up to 60KPH and I expect that the average for the full Rally will be around 50KPH
In my introductory rally last week (see other thread), things were very easy inasmuch as we were given the Road Book for the 2 days and each Time Card the night before. One thing I found strange was the way we drove as we liked up to the point of the Special timed sections, meaning that we arrived and waited for anything between 5 and 20 minutes at the side of the road, Is this normal?
Also, the arrival at the end of each stage was Free; we could arrive early or late without limit. I expect this 500 miles Rally is totally different,
PS - I have a head-lamp, which we did not need on last weekend's Rally
Edited by qim

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Hi John

 

I did a 2-day (100 Km per day) easy "Rally" last weekend and I am ready for something like this, while I am still breathing!

 

 

I will look for the "potty". That sounds good for finding our way, I am not so sure about time-keeping in special sections!

 

EDIT

 

I've just looked for a potti and nearly got a heart attack! £100????

 

http://www.donbarrow.co.uk/map_magnifiers.html

Edited by qim

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Hi Camilo,

 

From what you have posted there, it looks like you are right - there will be two main "legs (morning and afternoon/evening) broken into 4 bits (possibly to help scoring by collecting time-cards during the day and running them to the scorer). Within this, it looks like there will be 20 Regularity sections where your average speed will be checked super-accurately. Speeds look pretty normal ;-)

 

I'm not sure from what you've posted whether other timing points (e.g. end of legs, etc.) will be "free" but that is often the case - but not always!! Rallies over here usually have completely free timing between Regularity sections, but they don't give us much time, so there's not a lot of waiting around - it all depends on how many sections and how far apart they are, etc. You will need to check this with the organisers - do they time you? Can you arrive any time you like? Do you need to calculate your "in" time, and ask for it when you arrive?

 

A potti is a great thing, but MOST useful if you are reading and navigating via a detailed map - the magnifier in the base is very useful (almost essential) for that. If the instructions are easy to read (tulip diagrams, written instructions and so on) you don't really need one, in my opinion.

 

Hope that helps,

Tim

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One thing that defeated us last weekend was how to time the in-between distances within each regularity. I thought first that all I had to do was to get to the end withinn the full time only to be told that there were times for, say, each of the 100 meter parts of the full, say, 2Km.

 

In a 1959 car, with a not very easy to read speedo. in the end we reverted to my daughter's phone and some app she downloaded to give KPH, but even that was not very accurate, or not very fast to tell the real speed.

 

What's the secret?

Edited by qim

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Ah...

 

To answer that, you first need to know what equipment is allowed. Some rallies will only allow "period correct" devices which really limits you to an accurate distance-measuring device and a stopwatch (plus maybe speed tables or something to let you know how long it should take you to travel, say, 500m). Other events will allow any equipment which will include computers, calculators, GPS, or smartphone apps.

 

NO MATTER WHAT, remember the key rules of rallying:

1. Stay on the road

2. Stay on the route

3. Stay on time

 

Rules to be followed IN THIS ORDER! Especially as this is early in your rallying career and your first long rally, set your expectations at a reasonable level and work to improve your capabilities and accuracy as the rally progresses - you have plenty of time for learning :)

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"period correct" devices which really limits you to an accurate distance-measuring device

 

 

Whre can I get an accurate distance-measuring device? My speedo is definitely not one!

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Again, be sure what equipment is allowed before buying anything.

 

Assuming any basic measuring-only device is allowed, this is the type of thing. Reliable, relatively(!) cheap, easy to install. Many sellers, but here's a link to one.

 

https://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/trip-meters-rally-computers/brantz-international-2-pro-tripmeter

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Hi Tim

 

Yes, I looked at that and in fact they make a mechanical one that would be "period correct". But it is expensive and difficult to install. I am happy to come last-but-one in the final classification...

 

I was thinking of something simpler that would measure distance accurately (may be an app for a mobile). But still a few months to go.

 

Anyway, many thanks for your help.

Edited by qim

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IF ALLOWED I believe that there are apps for smartphones which run off GPS and can simultaneously calculate speed/distance and tell you how early or late you are (to an accuracy of at least one second) once the required average speed has been input.

 

I haven't used them myself (I always use "period" equipment both in my TR4 and when navigating an Audi Quattro), but I've seen them used to great effect.

 

Regardless of what you go for, the most useful thing you can do is get an accurate feel of what, say, 50km/h feels like to drive - what does the rev counter counter sit at when you drive at a steady 50km/h in third gear? Use GPS as a more accurate speedo to help.

 

There will be times when, no matter HOW clever your equipment is, your navigator will be too busy calculating or checking something to call out everything to you - at times like these, you need to be able to drive at close to the required speed without any help. ;)

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Hi John

 

I did a 2-day (100 Km per day) easy "Rally" last weekend and I am ready for something like this, while I am still breathing!

 

 

I will look for the "potty". That sounds good for finding our way, I am not so sure about time-keeping in special sections!

 

EDIT

 

I've just looked for a potti and nearly got a heart attack! £100????

 

http://www.donbarrow.co.uk/map_magnifiers.html

qim,

You're going to spend half that in petrol on this rally, I've no idea of the other costs.

Those Pottis are serious bits of kit! Of course they don't cost pennies. And you will have the Potti for the next rally too!

 

Look at the other kit offered on that Don barrow site (other suppliers are available) for the kit that will do the time over distance stuff that is essetial fo a regularity rally.

A Brantz tripmeter can cost three times as much as a Potti.

I'm no expert to tell you if a mobile app can do as well.

 

Motorsport IS expensive! I had to replace my race shoes and gloves recently. The shoes alone were nearly £100, just because they were time expired.

 

John

Edited by john.r.davies

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Hi John

 

I take your point, but... the route is by Tulip diagrams and from the last experience it is easier to look at the larger picture (two or three instructions) than to place a potti over the next instruction, covering the rest, Maybe the potti is essential for reading a map but that is not going to be used on this rally

 

Having said all this, I will probably buy one.

 

Regards

Camilo

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Hi Tim

 

I

F ALLOWED I believe that there are apps for smartphones which run off GPS and can simultaneously calculate speed/distance and tell you how early or late you are (to an accuracy of at least one second) once the required average speed has been input.

 

 

Any idea what they are called and where to download them from?

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Hi Tim

 

I

 

Any idea what they are called and where to download them from?

I've started to use DigiHUD on HRCR scenic tours and found it very good. Google playstore, £1.19 if you want the pro version. The basic version is free and does not include any adverts unlike some free stuff.

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Hi John

 

As I wrote I will get a potti!

 

But, rather than using a map (which will be available) if we get lost my daughter will use GPS to find out where we are. She is smarter than I am!

 

In Portugal, it is not easy to get detailed maps. In last weekend's rally I tried to get a map for the area around Beja. All I could find and order was one for the whole Alentejo, which is more than a 1/3 of the whole country. Not very useful if you get the wrong turn within a town,

Edited by qim

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Hi Camilo,

 

a little search on youtube gives a good idea of what you can aspect

 

i think a tripmeter like a brantz or similar and a Big Digit is more useful than a "potti".

 

Cheers

Marcel

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Hi Marcel

 

I have already something similar (better) than the Big Digit, and looked into a mechanical Brantz but am not happy about installing sensors in the wheels. I am not looking at this Rally as a competitive exercise. It is unfortunately the only one that I can find in Portugal that I could do with my daughter who is studying in England. She could come for the weekend without missing school.

 

My only problem now is the speedometer but I think that I can get a reliable one based on GPS if that is allowed.

 

Other than that, will I stay awake at the very end?...

 

In any case, I have now decided to go ahead and thank you all for the very useful tips.

 

Camilo

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