Overheating issue

[Graham]

Bit of a strange one.................well got me stumped anyway. Freshly, professionally, rebuilt 6 pot engine, rad fully flushed out and flows as it should, block chemically cleaned. Alloy pump manifold with new water pump. Car starts up fine.

 

BUT just as the temp gauge goes over mid way thermostat opens and all hell breaks loose, car just boils, floods overflow bottle and it then looks like a rather bizarre water feature !

 

The pump impeller is all attached to the pump but if you remove the thermostat, put it all back together and start the car there is no flow of water visible in the radiator header tank ?

 

Thinking possible faulty head gasket IE one or more of the waterways hasn't been properly punched out ?? or there is a foreign body in a water way anybody any other ideas

 

Thanks

[john.r.davies]

I think your water pump doesn't work.

 

I know you say "new water pump" but run the car and when the thermostat opens, the accumulated heat and steam is released. This indicates no flow.

Without thermostat, you have seen, no flow.

 

No idea of cause, pump needs to be removed and examined.

 

John

[Guest ntc]

Sounds to me you have not bled the system right.

[Phil Kirk]

Hi Graham

You have a PM

 

Phil

[oldtuckunder]

If you find the pump is OK, then whilst it sounds like teaching grandmother to suck eggs, I'd first suspect air lock, had the same thing happen to me on the Vitesse engine build before last (never had it happen before, and not since) and I also though Boll..ks fresh engine something seriously wrong. Not sure how/why but I had a good slug of air somewhere in the engine that wouldn't shift, until very carefully filled with hoses held up high and pouring water through. Have drained and refilled several times since, and even stripped and rebuilt the engine just to see what it was like and never had it happen again.

 

Of course it could be something worse.

 

Alan

[Guest ntc]

Hi Graham

You have a PM

 

Phil

Why?

[Graham]

I had already gone through the 'burping' process with the front of the car raised and filed through the heater hose ( a number of times) and I had subsequently checked the compressions and they were all within 10% of each other I then had it checked with a head gasket checker ( thing with the blue fluid in) and that said the head gasket was fine.

 

But in desperation the head came of this afternoon and ........head gasket was blown........ clear 'track' between cylinder and waterway and in some places the gasket lacquer had bonded to the block and in other places it had not.

[oldtuckunder]

Sorry to hear that, but at least problem found! Sometimes that ticking sound is actually a bomb!

[Guest ntc]

Who built it? how long had you run it?

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Which block, which head gasket?

Peter W

[Graham]

Result! got to the bottom of the problem......................., well I didn't as I ran out of ability and passed it to a professional, but just had a call and Enginuity are confident they have solved the puzzle.

 

The original engine builder had at my request fitted a Bastuck alloy water pump manifold. When Enginuity looked at the block they found a large amount of crud around the back of No6 cylinder and had previously also reported lack of flow around the cooling system. Jerry at Enginuity then pulled the water pump manifold and found that my particular casting had a restriction in it (faulty casting plus casting sand !) and that coupled with some of the crud which had been circulating around the block was leading to the overheating problem and subsequent head gasket failure. So it wasn't over heating because of the head gasket had blown, the head gasket blew because of overheating .............hopefully that will be the end of it.

 

Only posted incase anybody is in a similar fix, if so, check your manifolds !

[Hamish]

Thats great thanks for the feed back and good that you have a definitive answer.

????

[oldtuckunder]

check your manifolds !

 

Sound like an interesting discussion with whoever rebuilt the engine!

 

Alan

[Alec Pringle]

Nothing exactly new about restrictions in the water flow as a result of entrapped sand, and poor cleaning of the original cast when new . . . . . which only gets worse with deposition of crud over the passing years. No 6 is invariably the worst accumulator . . . . .

 

Whoever 'professionally' rebuilt the engine clearly has something to learn about the basics of rebuilding Triumph 6-pots - they all suffered in respect of casting and cleaning faults, from the first 2000s and 1600 Vitesse through to the last 2500s. Interestingly, the preceding Vanguard 6s seemed to have been cast, or at least quality controlled, to a higher standard.

 

Hopefully the original builder will be meeting the costs of Enginuity's efforts . . . . and taking some beginner's lessons in block inspection.

 

Presumably he wasn't familiar with Triumph characteristics, although that's not much of an excuse in the context that coolant flow and coolant system deposition ought to be checked in the first instance with any engine rebuild - and it's what piranha tanks are for, eating crud.

 

It's worth going to a proper Triumph specialist - it might cost a bit more initially than a general engine rebuilder, but usually less costly and less grief in the long run.

 

I'm sure that others will appreciate knowing the identity of the original rebuilder, now that the problem appears to have been identified and resolved, as this episode is hardly a recommendation !

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[graeme]

The way I read it, the Bastuck water pump manifold is at fault, not the engine.

 

Cheers

 

Graeme

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Graeme,

 

you could be right in your reading . . . . .

 

But that doesn't alter the account of a crudded-up block, and it does rather beg the question of how closely the engine builder bothered to inspect the replacement water pump manifold, does it not ?

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Nigel Triumph]

In my experience, the 6-pot engines always get a build up of crud around No.6 cylinder's waterways. No amount of flushing will remove it but poking with strong wire or a small screwdriver while flushing through usually gets the worst of it out. Cylinder head off of course.

 

Nigel

[graeme]

Hi Graeme,

 

you could be right in your reading . . . . .

 

But that doesn't alter the account of a crudded-up block, and it does rather beg the question of how closely the engine builder bothered to inspect the replacement water pump manifold, does it not ?

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

 

Correct Alec.

 

Graeme

[Mark69]

When I stripped my engine I used a set of boiler heat exchanger service brushes, surprising how much crud is removed.

Spent a long time getting into all the hard to get places. Time well spent reading this post.

[Richard71]

In my experience, the 6-pot engines always get a build up of crud around No.6 cylinder's waterways. No amount of flushing will remove it but poking with strong wire or a small screwdriver while flushing through usually gets the worst of it out. Cylinder head off of course.

 

Nigel

 

Nigel,

Just how are you flushing the block with the cyl head off, I'm picturing a garden hose fed into the cavity at the front of the block and water pouring out the drain hole???

 

Richard.

[Nigel Triumph]

 

Nigel,

Just how are you flushing the block with the cyl head off, I'm picturing a garden hose fed into the cavity at the front of the block and water pouring out the drain hole???

 

Richard.

With cylinder head off and drain plug or tap removed from the back corner of the block, I've poked with a small screwdriver at the accumulated crud, both down the water jacket from the gasket face and through the drain hole.

 

The flushing was done by simply putting a small plastic funnel into the top of the water jacket and pouring water through from a jug. The stuff that's just been loosened with the screwdriver runs out through the drain hole. Repeat the process a couple of times and the worst of the blockage should be gone.

 

This worked on my GT6 and TR6 engines.

 

 

Nigel

[Fireman049]

Spot the block drain hole!

Tom.

 

[Alec Pringle]

Nice one Tom !

 

Meanwhile, we know who sorted Graham's problem, and it would be helpful to identify the muppet factor that created it . . . . accepting that at least some fault seems to fall on the water pump manifold.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Fireman049]

Hi Alec ~

 

Here's a photo. of my block after it was chemically cleaned.

 

Tom.

 

 

[Waldi]

Looking very nice Tom.

A related question:

I plan to clean the waterside of my CP engine when the block is fully stripped with diluted phosphoric acid (20% to start with). Does it harm if some of the acid enters the oil side of the block?

Off course, before and after the acid treatment I will take the block to a car wash to wash out most of the dirt/oil/deposits.

Thanks,

Waldi