TR4A engine oil usage

[RogerH]

Hi Barry,

thanks for that. That gives me an idea.

 

I'll be back

 

Roger

[John L]

What about a simple slide hammer like, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5pc-DENT-PULLER-KIT-SLIDE-HAMMER-bearing-hub-gear/401363650381?epid=2255315433&hash=item5d7323474d:m:msejqcxV1caNGTiESWx1HpQ

 

Or make your own with a lump of steel with a rod with a nut on the end?

John

[peejay4A]

Space is very tight with the engine in situ. The solution will need to be an elegant one, not least making the first puncture in the blanking plug. If anyone can solve it, it’s Roger.

[BarryG]

John

 

Not sure if you would be able to get a slide hammer in with the engine still in the car.

 

Barry

[RogerH]

Hi Pete,

for every good idea there are dozens of dis-functional prototypes - you should see in the corner of my garage.

 

Easy enough to drill a hole (right angle drill) but could be fun with the swarf.

Magnetise the drill bit wil catch most particles.

Adjacent vacuum cleaner nozzle for some swarf.

 

I am sure that some swarf will escape. How good is the pump gauze !!! The filter should stop anything harmful.

 

Weld a stud onto the plug, but not a lot of room.

1" diameter 'easy- out'

 

And it is only Monday

 

Roger

Edited December 4, 2017 by RogerH

[Paul J]

I chose punching a hole for that reason Roger the thought of swarf getting in the sump, I ended up dropping the sump anyway. Hot work is restricted with access and also the fuel piping to consider.

Something along the lines of those plaster board fixings may work, the sort that spread their wings after penetration.

Paul

[RogerH]

Hi Paul,

I had considered something like a Rawl bolt for holding machinery down in concrete - expanding with gripping edges.

 

I need to get psych'd up before destroying the engine.

 

Roger

[Lebro]

Just wait until the next time you pull the engine out. Probably won't be long

 

Bob

[RogerH]

Hi Bob,

I had planned to do it this winter but too many tings to do have stopped me.

One of the things is now not happening so there would have been time but I'm not in the right frame of mind now.

 

If I can do it insitu then I will attempt it, but it needs to be a fairly rigorous plan.

 

Roger

[Lebro]

I was with you with the rawlbolt idea, had thought of that, but they don't expand very much, & might just pull through the hole.

To make the hole you would need a sharp point, followed by a tapering rod - bit like a centre punch but more tapered.

You can get metal sprung plaster board fixings which would open up behind the plug, but are they man enough ?

I have a slide hammer which comes with various end fixings, including a large self tap type screw - maybe that could be fixed to something else

- a crowbar maybe to pull the plug out.

 

Bob.

 

P.S. how about a coach screw - tapered coarse self tap type tread, with a hexagon head you could pull out with a crowbar.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Lebro

[RogerH]

Hi Bob,

indeed the Rawl bolt would need modifying. Lots to think about.

 

Roger

[Rob Salisbury]

Hi Roger, I gave up the in situ removal of this plug for all the reasons above, ... there just isn't enough room, and a partial fail could go seriously wrong, ... I did have one idea involving the removal of both engine mounts and (hanging from a hoist/beam whatever), canting the engine over towards the off-side, but never followed this through, instead, initially as a temporary measure, I threw away the PCV and fed a catch tank from the rocker cover spigot, been working like that for a couple of years and catches a watery/oily acidic gunge that I'm really glad is not being fed back through the engine!!

Cheers Rob

[RogerH]

Hi Rob,

my investigations may well end up the same way. And as you say getting it half way out and then failing is not a good position to be in.

I also have the catch tank feeding from the rocker cover. It does the job very well but is not ideal.

 

I have a plan forming that involves an angle drill, scissor jack, a sharp spikey thing with four raised flutes, a rawl bolt, ouija board and a dowsing twig.

 

Roger

[Paul J]

Hi Rob,

my investigations may well end up the same way. And as you say getting it half way out and then failing is not a good position to be in.

I also have the catch tank feeding from the rocker cover. It does the job very well but is not ideal.

 

I have a plan forming that involves an angle drill, scissor jack, a sharp spikey thing with four raised flutes, a rawl bolt, ouija board and a dowsing twig.

 

Roger

 

Roger behind the core plug is a right angled return port to the sump, this is enclosed so you could use the rear of the port for jacking against, I would think a 60mm long coach bolt through the core plug would bottom out and Jack the plug out.

Easy in theory.

One of those square headed wood coach bolts which are self tapping.

Just another thought.

Paul

[RogerH]

Hi Paul,

that is useful info. I didn't know the hole was sort of blind.

 

I had a couple of spare engines that would have been useful to study but I gave them away a couple of years back.

 

Roger

Edited December 4, 2017 by RogerH

[Paul J]

Hi Paul,

that is useful info. I didn't know the hole was sort of blind.

 

I had a couple of spare engines that would have been useful to study but I gave them away a couple of years back.

 

Roger

Yes Roger the tube return to the sump is smaller than the core plug diameter so removal of the plug from inside is a no no, i removed my sump thinking it would be easy to remove from within.

Another reason why I'm not too concerned about leaving the old plug in for awhile, it can't obstruct anything and the sump is breathing naturally, it may also act as an oil mist baffle collecting any oil before getting to the hose.

Im convinced.

[RogerH]

Hi Paul,

it would be good practice to remove the plug but as long as you have a decent hole to breath through then it is functional.

 

Lots to think about.

 

Roger

[graeme]

Roger,

 

When I was considering doing this, I thought an internal pipe wrench might work. The plug has an internal dia. which I can't remember now, which should accept the wrench.

 

Before I could find the correct size wrench, I had to take the engine out due to to cam failure, so I removed the plug then.

 

https://www.zoro.com/general-internal-pipe-wrench-set-38-to-1-cap-1394/i/G1325983/

 

Good luck

 

Graeme

Edited December 5, 2017 by graeme

[RogerH]

Hi Graeme,

they look tasty. I'll have look to see if they in the UK

 

 

Roger

 

 

PS - a quick look on ebay shows they are all int he USA - I do more searching.

Edited December 5, 2017 by RogerH

[Z320]

Sorry me to be honest, I guess this tool does not work on a core plug.

It is not to a tool to pull and if it would be, a core plug is not deep enought to stick the tool in.

 

Ciao Marco

Edited December 5, 2017 by Z320

[RogerH]

Hi Marco,

thanks for that. So that is part of the investigations done.

 

Roger

[Motorsport Mickey]

Roger,

 

That tool works by expanding the inner wall outwards, on the block core plug the lip of the plug also points outwards and so if used when you tightened the tool up it would compress the lip on the core plug against the block and make it tighter.

 

I carried out a search using the usefully supplied search box above ? are any of the 72 posts going back to 2005 any help to you ? especially Stuarts post about how to remove them ?.... Gold for the price of Silver.

http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&andor_type=&sid=186bc97f907a90b40d6ab41e354170b0&search_app_filters[forums][sortKey]=date&search_app_filters[forums][sortKey]=date&search_term=Engine+core+plug&search_app=forums&st=50

 

Mick Richards

[RogerH]

Hi Mick,

thanks for that. The post from TR4Tony regarding using the fuel pump location rather than remove the core plug is a thought.

 

Lots to consider.

 

Roger

[RogerH]

Hi Folks,

had a nice Friday Night NLG Christmas party and ended up chatting about the oil consumption.

I'm amazed that so many people are having trouble with oil consumption on one way or another.

 

The idea of using the mechanical fuel pump orifice is a no no. Probably suck the engine dry !!!!

 

High street garages can remove the breather core plug in a few minutes - this may be useful.

 

Since removing the PCV oil usage has reduced significantly (it may actually be filling up now )

 

On another side I have noted #3 sparky is quite sooty compared to the others. So I have decided to attack it sideways on - replace the coil

 

I've fitted an oil filled 'flame Thrower' purchased from the dizzy Doc. The idea being that the higher spark volts may help to keep the plug clean.

I could have fitted a different grade of [plug but that is not half as interesting.

 

If the plug keeps getting sooty then I may go to the next millstone and consider valve stem seals on the inlets.

 

Did about 250 miles yesterday up to Merves funeral and back and the engine went very well.

 

During the summer the engine was pinking a fair bit so I back off the static timing on the dizzy. Don;t know what to but stopped when the pinking disappeared.

The pinking may well have been caused by the oil consumption issue. So yesterday at some time I gave the sparks a bit of advance.

Re-checked it this morning with my Gunson ray gun cum timing light and it was spot on 10' BDTC.

So the pinking is sorted, the oil is beginning to look good and I now have sparks that you could read a book by - 2018 is looking good.

 

Roger

[BarryG]

Hi Roger

 

As you know I ditched the PCV valve a few weeks ago and ran a hose to a plastic milk bottle alongside the radiator.

I experienced an immediate improvement in tickover (more consistant) comfortably ticks over between 600 - 700.

This week I have ditched the milk bottle in favour of drilling the airfilter tops and inserting 2 x 90 degree plastic elbows,

these are connected to the rocker box take off via a 'Y' splitter. This I think is copying the TR4 venting method, in fact

your photo you posted previously of your TR4 gave me the idea.

 

All I ever got in the redundant milk bottle was water, I have been wondering if this has basically been condensation maybe

mixed in with a bit of oil fumes. I strongly think this is probably down to the engine getting hot and then cold, as

did the old fashioned single glazed windows.

 

Whilst I havent done the mileage you have I think I may be on target in halving my oil consumption which I am pleased about.

I have ordered the core plug remover I mentioned previously from the US which is still in transit, if when I receive it, this may

become my Christmas break job, in between the turkey and mince pies ;-)

 

As regards the colour of my plugs, I have been running a Petronix system with a Flame Thrower coil. I set my plugs to a wider gap

as somebody on this forum has mentioned you get a fatter spark. It certainly helped my plug colour.

 

As this oil consumption issue seems to have affected so many members, I have been wondering if it would be worth conducting some

sort of survey. Maybe if all the right questions were asked the answers would help others. eg.

 

What is your oil consumption over 1000 miles?

Do you have a PCV valve?

If not how is the rocker box vented?

Do you have a crankcase breather?

Has there been any modifications to the engine etc skimmed head, fast cam etc etc

 

I appreciate that the TR4 and TR4A left the factory with certain configurations, however over the years many users have made numerous

changes.

 

I believe with Google you can set up a questionnaire and just publish a link to it. The replies may then give us a definative solution.

 

Sorry to waffle on.

 

Barry