Motorsport Mickey Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 Hi Roger I had a very similar problem my oil consumption was what I considered excessive maybe a litre over 400 miles, I did have a little leakage from front sump bolts and coil bolts. I removed my PCV and fitted a K&N type filter to the rocker cover, removed the core plug down by the fuel pump and fitted an outlet to a small catch tank which vents to atmosphere. This was a trial really but the first thing I noticed was a far better idle. The oil consumption has reduced to very little, unfortunately at the same time I changed the oil from Halfords Classic to VR1 Valvoline so I'm not 100% sure which modification has changed things though pretty confident it's the breathing system. Ive also stopped most of the leakage wth the exception of the rear seal. All filters have remained dry with no oil misting which surprised me. Paul Paul, I seem to remember you were interested in oil with ZDDP in, the VR1 used in Europe doesn't only the US spec does. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 Fascinating reading, including when they should be replaced by. ;-) http://www.aa1car.com/library/pcv.htm Barry Hi Barry, I'm slowly understanding how the valve works. I'm also finding out what PCV stands for being an aircraft person I thought Pressure Control Valve - but that is daft. Today I thought of Pollution Control valve (getting closer) Now I see it is Positive Crankcase Ventilation. Learning all the time. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ctc77965o Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) Roger, Do you have a rocker shaft oil feed kit fitted? You may remember from a previous thread on pre-ignition that I had problems with the early form of the rocker oil feed kit from Moss. What was happening was that too much oil was delivered to the top of the engine, with all the oil running down and the crankcase fumes blowing up, a lot of oil mist was getting sucked through the PCV into the inlet. I removed the rocker feed and the pre-ignition went away. I never measured oil consumption, but since the oil-induced pre-ignition stopped I guess I was burning less oil. My recollection is that i wrote to TR action and subsequently Moss changed the 4-cyl oil feed kits to include some restrictor in ~1995 So, the PCV may be innocent if there are other modifications. Edited November 25, 2017 by ctc77965o Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul J Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) Paul, I seem to remember you were interested in oil with ZDDP in, the VR1 used in Europe doesn't only the US spec does. Mick Richards MickThe Zddp content has been well discussed recently, in the 60s we used whatever oil we could get hold of just to maintain a reasonable level on the dipstick, oils of today seem to be far superior in quality than that of yesteryear. Coat on and heading for the door. Valvoline was suggested to me by a well respected Cornish supplier (down here) the use of along with getting rid of the PCV had an instant positive result for me, long term I will keep you posted. Roger I made up a male elbow with an interference fit into the core plug hole along with some loctite sealant and fitted a hose to the catch tank, removing the hose from the crank case breather at idle I feel nothing from the hose, though under load it will probably change. The filters were just K&N lookalike that fitted directly onto the rocker cover with two of them on a litre catch tank from the crankcase breather, which after 400 miles contains very little. Paul Edited November 25, 2017 by Paul J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 Hi, better name für the Positiv Crankcase Ventilation valve would be Activ Crankcase Ventilaion valve in the sence of "forced" or "supported". It does what a vaccum pump would do. I that context I find the original ventilated oil filler cap of the TR4 not usefull. If needed (?) something like a "ventilation-valve" should not be on top of the engine but down by the crankshaft. Ciao &:-) Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 Hi Paul, looked on the K&N web site and they have a selection of cover filters. Have ordered a small catch tank off the Bay. Next week should be interesting. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul J Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) Hi Paul, looked on the K&N web site and they have a selection of cover filters. Have ordered a small catch tank off the Bay. Next week should be interesting. Roger We do like to play Roger it keeps the grey matter active. This is my set up can easily be reversed if necessary. By the way that's your old rocker cover in all its glory. Paul Edited November 25, 2017 by Paul J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 Hi Paul, it is in better nick than my 4A one on the car at present. I should have done a swap. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BarryG Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 Hi Roger Are you setting it up so that the crankcase vent goes into the catchtank? And whats your plans for the rocker cover? I have now started looking at right angled drill attachments - I wonder why :-) Barry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 Hi Barry, at present I have a rubber pipe venting the rocker cover over to the fuel pump area. I shall attach a simple plastic bottle to it for a few days to see what happens. I've ordered a small catch tank to have a play with and have found the K&N site for the various filters that could fit on the rocker cover outlet pipe. I've ordered a TR4 crankcase breather pipe forma very dodgy character Hopefully by the end of next week I'll have something cobbled together to give me a test bed. Let's see what happens. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deggers Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 Interesting clip of a modified cover on a 4A, with an inspection hole to observe the PCV during operation. Cheers, Deggers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 Hi Deggers, I hope it is interesting, I´m the one how made and published it. "TR4A-Driver" on Youtube is me. You can see everything I explained before. There are also some of my other clips about TR4A technic on Youtube. Ciao &:-) Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 So, is it better to have a sealed oil filler cap as per the above video, or the type with a mesh filter on top ? Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike3md Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 I think you will find that the top should be the "sealed" type to work with the PCV. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BarryG Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 Hi Mike So presumably if you do away with the PCV valve you would use a vented oil filler cap? On a TR4 where would the rocker box have been vented to - the air filters? Many cars of the period seem to have been vented this way. Barry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 Hi Barry, this is what I have on my TR4 Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BarryG Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 Hi Roger Thanks for the photo, so vented cap and extraction via the intake? If when you fit your catch tank to your 4A using your crankcase breather pipe would you have to cut off the 'S' bend in order to plumb into the catch tank (ie rubber hose and jubilee clips)?. Have you considered plumbing both the rocker breather and the crankcase breather into the same catch tank as I have seen in some photos on't web? Barry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 Hi Barry, at present haven't a clue about the plumbing. When the tank turns up I'll cobble something together and see what happens I have a TR4 style crank case vent turning up soon but not sure now if I need it. There is nothing coming out of the temporary pipe on the rocker cover. PaulJ uses a plumbing 90' elbow stuck in the block above the fuel pump with a rubber pipe coming off this to the tank. That may be the way to go. On going project!! Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deggers Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 There are also some of my other clips about TR4A technic on Youtube. Ciao &:-) Marco Just had a look, Marco. Good channel. Particularly liked the Bendix-drive on the 4A starter. Hadn't seen one of those in operation before. Cheers, Deggers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 Deggers, thanks for the laud, I have also not seen that before and found no one who showed me. That´s why I made and published the video. Have you realised how easy the pinion runs? Before it was bad working and glued from old rosiny (?) grease. I washed all out and used gun oil with some petroleum (in UK: parafin called?). Works without any problems since that conversion. Ciao &:-) Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
North London Mike Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) Roger Been lurking on this thread for a while now, very interesting and strangely reassuring. On a recent Euro tour, 2200 miles, inc some 100 mph+ cruising in Germany LNK managed 750 a litre which I wasn't that impressed with, but better than the 3-400/Ltr worse case reported here. I have a small leak from the Spin on oil filter and a drip from the front timing cover, rear main is dry. So, like everybody else, I'm burning it off, or just sending it out the back. No PCV, straight hose to a breather/ catch tank. Suspect rings or glazed bores in my case, but also believe its a combination of several factors coming together to give a perfect score, or equally, a fail...... Breathing, crank case pressure leads to leaks, rear main can be big enough to cause real oil consumption. Once you solve these, you're looking at , as Roger says, something going on in the engine. Truly a black art. Lots of great info here and look forward to more test data soon Meanwhile I'm chasing my own demos and will let you know once I've sorted them Edited November 30, 2017 by North London Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 , removed the core plug down by the fuel pump and fitted an outlet to a small catch tank which vents to atmosphere. This was a trial really but the first thing I noticed was a far better idle. Paul Hi Paul, to stop me re-inventing the wheel how did you remove the core plug from the TR4 breather pipe position. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul J Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 (edited) With great difficulty Roger. I will be honest with you I punched a hole in it hoping to lever it out with a pry bar. No go it went in deeper. I removed the sump to gain some rear access which as you know is a waste of time. I left the holed core plug in as it cant interfere with anything, when I decide to remove the engine next I will then surgically remove. The old plug is in far enough not to obstruct the elbow I fitted and has a hole in it equal to the elbow ID not an easy decision for me but I feel ok about it now. Others seem to have had better success than I removing the plug, Apologies if my post was a little misleading. Paul Edited December 3, 2017 by Paul J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 Hi Paul, thanks for that. Clearly it can be a bit of a devil. Some sort of extractor device is needed. Grey cell at the ready. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BarryG Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 Roger How about something like this, naturally you would have to make a hole first though. https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F263061376117 Barry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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