Jump to content

Fuel Hose Specification (High Pressure)


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, astontr6 said:

 So who sells the PI version in the UK if any?

Bruce. 

Bruce,

I could not find anyone selling short lengths of it in the UK, only huge rolls for £90 ish. I bought a 2 ft length it from this Ebay supplier who ships it direct from the US. Not a cheap way to do it, and the shipping cost more than the hose. It took about 2 weeks to arrive but the whole transaction worked fine.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gates-Barricade-Fuel-Injection-Hose-MPI-3-8-inch-ID-Sold-by-the-foot-New/282981450211?hash=item41e30241e3:g:SJ4AAOSw-mdbCGOL:rk:1:pf:1&frcectupt=true

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Bruce,

I bought 500 mm of 8 mm hose in Holland, it costed only 7,50 euro’s. Availability in Holland is poor like you experience too.

Moss (Adam) said he would look into it, so let’s give Moss some time to organize.

I do not recommend the hoses Moss sell currently, mine had a doubtfull thin hose, no inlays, thin wall, fully depending on the braided textile around the hose to resist pressure. Also not low-permeability. But very cheap, bought mine on sale for 8 pound or so, cut the hose off and replaced it with the Barricade FI hose.

All the best,

Waldi

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Jochem,

think that’s it; you can use the nice aluminium AN fittings, but then you will have to buy these and I do not know if the Gates hose can be used with that system.

If you find a shop that makes hydraulic hoses for industrial or agricultural equipment, you can ask them to compress the fittings, which they will certainly have in stock.

Regards,

Waldi

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've used jubilee clips for over 20 years on my PI system , with no problems. They're rated for 203 psi in the smaller sizes we need:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwitjv72werfAhXPbX0KHZI3BSoQFjABegQIBRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jubileeclips.co.uk%2Fadvanced-product-search%2F%3Fas-sector19%3DAutomotive%26submit%3DSearch&usg=AOvVaw1NqV10Ock6soheLoOGzxqp

For the high pressure lines I use them in pairs, with the screws placed 180 degrees apart. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Curiouser and curiouser…

I took my Barricade hose and fittings from the Moss hose to Pirtek today.

As a reminder, I had purchased this hose from Moss a couple of months ago and its only done 150 miles and stinks of fuel.

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/hose-fuel-pump-to-prv-t-piece-215642.html?assoc=129256

When removed the fittings from the Moss hose, I noticed that there were no crimped caps around  the hose and the fittings were simply pushed in so I had to slice the hose to get them out. They have barbed circles around the diameter of the fitting which goes inside the hose.

Long story short, the guy at Pirtek took one look at the fittings and said "these are push in fittings and do not need crimping on. As long as you have the right size hose they just push in. So he did it there and then holding the fittings in the vice and pushing the hose on. He went on to say that they were rated for "way higher than 110psi". No money changed hands.

Anyone seen this before or have any comments? Should I add a couple of jubilee clips to each end as belt and braces?

20190115_174605.thumb.jpg.749159ae95f9d7797f681d79fe0b896f.jpg

Cheers,

Sean

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Sean,

     jubilee clips are not the best clips for these situation. As you see with LP water rubber pipes they dig in and deform the rubber.

If the Barricade pipe has the strength to NOT swell under the pressure then they should not pop off.  IF the rubber pipe swells then you have serious other problems.

If you have any lucky Heather place it by the pipe when in service.

Roger

 

have a look here https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/1245721/?grossPrice=Y&cm_mmc=UK-PLA-DS3A-_-google-_-PLA_UK_EN_Fasteners_And_Fixings-_-Clips|Hose_And_Jubilee_Clips-_-PRODUCT_GROUP&matchtype=&aud-358527060186:pla-391659215656&s_kwcid=AL!7457!3!243845703337!!!g!391659215656!&gclid=Cj0KCQiApvbhBRDXARIsALnNoK3pKNIi2qgMfYY_il5LrCiIdI_JakEREIW7WN53EdPRwAHJei3c2BoaAnorEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Edited by RogerH
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Sean,

good that you have the Barricade hose.

Is it the 225 psi rated hose (it should be)?Moss do sell a Barricade hose, but for a much lower allowable pressure, suitable for carburettor applications and return lines.

I wondered about the hoses without a pressed sleeve too, as I had one or two like that, also with a red plastic ring. I do not know the difference between push-on and sleeve-type fittings (barbs), but it is also related to the rigidity of the hose, off course.

One simple test is that you should not be able to rotate the hose relative to the fitting. Also when warm and pressurized after some time in use.

Waldi

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 years later...
On 8/20/2017 at 2:10 AM, Waldi said:

 

"Below is a picture of one of my fittings (hose to MU), not sure if this is and original fitting, maybe someone can confirm?
My old hose (Aeroquip) was simply pushed on, no clamp or pressed steel sleeve was used. It did not leak, but the outer layers are fractured and hard.

The outer diameter of the ferrules on the hose to the MU is 1/4" (6,25mm) , while the ferrules from the hose from pump to PRV measured 3/8" (9,7 mm).

post-13554-0-08622400-1503220165_thumb.jpg
So it looks like 1/4"and 3/8" hoses are required, I am not sure mine are standard, however."

 

 

Does anyone know what size thread the MU hose fitting are? Same question for the PRV?

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/20/2017 at 10:10 AM, Waldi said:

Hi,

I started a new topic where we can put specific information related to the specification of hoses, fittings of the HP fuel hoses (Pump to PRV and Fuel line under car to MU).

Below I drafted what I learnt so far, mainly from the good knowledge from others on this forum, and some suppliers, like Neil Revingtons website.

For low permeability hoses, with no smell at all, the best choise available currently are PTFE (lined) hoses, but these have the disadvantage of a potential for vibrations due to the inability to dampen the (Bosch) pump-pulsations.

A new, different PRV that works with a membrane and dampens the pulsations can eliminate this problem, and is sold by several TR-suppliers.

Rubber hoses are better suited for damping the pulsations if the standard PRV is used, but do "sweat", and the emissions can result in a nasty petrol smell in the boot.

Gates manufacture a hose called Gates Barricade Fuel Hose MPI, which accoding to the manufacturer, has the lowest emission rates on the market. According to their brochure, the fuel loss on a "standard" hose is 4 litre/ year / 60 cm length of hose, while their Barrier hose only loses 0.03 litre for the same hose, so more than 100 times less.

It is a relative comparison as many factors influence the permeability off course.

Note the fuel savings over the life of the hose could justify a more expensive hose if the above is correct.

 

Until now I was not able to find a supplier who supplies the 2 complete hose asssemblies with the Gates Barricade hose but have just requested one supplier if he can. My preference would be to order the complete assemblies from a supplier.

Once I have feedback I will let you all know off course.

 

Here is a link to the Gates general information of the Barricade MPI hose:

http://www.gates.com/products/automotive/powersport-recreational/fuel-system/barricade-fuel-injection-hose-mpi

 

And a link to the brochure with more info:

http://www.gates.com/oreilly/PDFs/Fuel%20Systems.pdf

 

The hose we require is called Gates Barricade Fuel Line Hose (MPI).

It is suitable for a continuous working pressure of 225 PSI and a working temperature of 135 oC.

Be aware that the maximum pressure and temperature often cannot be combined as a working condition.

 

Ordering the Gates hose itself is the easy part, you can order it through ebay or other sources, mainly from the USA and Australia, in several lengths, also shorter lengths.

 

The difficulty I see is the fittings and assembly.

Below is a picture of one of my fittings (hose to MU), not sure if this is and original fitting, maybe someone can confirm?
My old hose (Aeroquip) was simply pushed on, no clamp or pressed steel sleeve was used. It did not leak, but the outer layers are fractured and hard.

The outer diameter of the ferrules on the hose to the MU is 1/4" (6,25mm) , while the ferrules from the hose from pump to PRV measured 3/8" (9,7 mm).

post-13554-0-08622400-1503220165_thumb.jpg
So it looks like 1/4"and 3/8" hoses are required, I am not sure mine are standard, however.

 

Update December 2018: I ordered a spare hose from Moss (Bosch Pump to PRV), this came with a Codan hose with braided outer sleeve; it is not a low permeability hose amd also just inside the allowable pressure according to Cadan, so I removed the Codan hose and replaced with a Gates Barricade hose. The ID for these Moss fittings is 8 mm (or 5/16"), not 10 mm (3/8"), so check your fitting diameters first before ordering the Barricade hose.

I do not want to take any risk given the critical service of these hoses, and assuming that what you have is "good" is a risk, especially if you are not very fmiliar/knowledgeable with fittings/hoses (I am not).

 

I am interested in other opinions / information / sources and experiences, especially as I am aware some of us have used this hose already.

Did it really give a significant improvement in petrol smell reduction?

Can you order new fittings easily (I have no idea what and where to order, being a "metric guy" does not help here.
I prefer not to re-use my old fittings.

Is assembly a job you can do without special equipment, or is it better outsourced?

 

 

Regards,

Waldi

 

Hi Waldi

One of the main sources of petrol smells is what I call the filler hose from filler cap to the top of the tank at present I am working on this to see it I can obtain a suitable material hose. Size is the problem. My hose supplier is hunting around to see if he can find something suitable?

Regarding fittings 3/8" BSP thread seems to feature as one of the common sizes. These are readerly available here in the UK but often they will have a metric hexagon now and not an imperial one. 

I have been using the Gates Green Shield type 14 rated at 225 PSI. hose now for over 4 years and only use fittings with swaged ferrules. The push on Aeroquip type are not CAA approved as I have been told and therefore I would steer well clear of that type!

Bruce.

Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, astontr6 said:

Regarding fittings 3/8" BSP thread seems to feature as one of the common sizes. These are readerly available here in the UK but often they will have a metric hexagon now and not an imperial one.

That explains why I have 2 different sizes on my pump inlet & outlet.

Bruce did you get your hoses made up or purchase ready assembled? I'm interested in changing all my hoses out as they seem to be quite old.

Alan 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, super6al said:

That explains why I have 2 different sizes on my pump inlet & outlet.

Bruce did you get your hoses made up or purchase ready assembled? I'm interested in changing all my hoses out as they seem to be quite old.

Alan 

I supplied the hose to a local hose company called Spectrum Hose and they put the fittings on with swaged ferrules. I have used them for years.

Bruce

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/15/2019 at 6:28 PM, Waldi said:

Hi Sean,

good that you have the Barricade hose.

Is it the 225 psi rated hose (it should be)?Moss do sell a Barricade hose, but for a much lower allowable pressure, suitable for carburettor applications and return lines.

I wondered about the hoses without a pressed sleeve too, as I had one or two like that, also with a red plastic ring. I do not know the difference between push-on and sleeve-type fittings (barbs), but it is also related to the rigidity of the hose, off course.

One simple test is that you should not be able to rotate the hose relative to the fitting. Also when warm and pressurized after some time in use.

Waldi

 

When I worked in the Aerospace hose industry the only acceptable hose fittings were swaged end fittings. These push on fittings are not CAA approved and that says it all to me. A **** idea which could have serious consequences for your car and house. I do not want to be cremated yet??

Bruce,

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, astontr6 said:

 

Hi Waldi

One of the main sources of petrol smells is what I call the filler hose from filler cap to the top of the tank at present I am working on this to see it I can obtain a suitable material hose. Size is the problem. My hose supplier is hunting around to see if he can find something suitable?

Bruce.

Hi Bruce,

I hope all is well with you. I reported recently in the TR5 section that changing the filler hose made a step-change difference in the smell in my boot, of the car that is;)

Neil Revington sells a hose with an inlay, which really solved my smell, after I had upgraded ALL other hoses to R9 or R14. Highly recommended! my old hose was just 4 or 5 years old.

I cannot copy a direct link to the other post, but the name is: 

“Petrol smell in boot“

Cheers,

Waldi

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Waldi said:

Hi Bruce,

I hope all is well with you. I reported recently in the TR5 section that changing the filler hose made a step-change difference in the smell in my boot, of the car that is;)

Neil Revington sells a hose with an inlay, which really solved my smell, after I had upgraded ALL other hoses to R9 or R14. Highly recommended! my old hose was just 4 or 5 years old.

I cannot copy a direct link to the other post, but the name is: 

“Petrol smell in boot“

Cheers,

Waldi

Thanks for that info. I have also been corrected that what I am looking for is a 'fuel delivery hose'. I am yet to receive a data sheet to show its performance. I will let you know how I get on.

Bruce.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Bruce,

I did not see a datasheet or specification, but it made a real difference. Time will tell if it stays like this.

Cheers,
Waldi

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please familiarise yourself with our Terms and Conditions. By using this site, you agree to the following: Terms of Use.