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High sound/noise when hot


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Hi,

When hot there's a very high gearing sound. The hotter the louder. When driving with normal temperatures there's no gearing sound.

I can locate the sound to the surrounding of the (lower) dizzy drive and oil pump.

What's the best thing to start with? Change oil pump?

 

Info; it is a TR6 PI (1972) and the engine has only 350km after a rebuilt.

 

Peter

 

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Peter,

Try to locate the noise accurately with stethoscope or long screwdriver. It might be the tachometer drive cable.Is that now at the correct angle after you moved the distributor.

Peter

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Hi, correction, just made a drive and it is also with normal temperatures. Only not when cold.

 

Yes, did shim the housing. Turned it loose with the motor running and lifted the dizzy up, there was no change.

 

I made video so you can hear the sound. Trying to find how to upload a video :)

Edited by pgee
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Could be the the disributor shaft running dry in its bearings. Try squirting a cc of engine oil down the inside of the housing.

Peter

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Hi. listened with a long pipe. The sound is the loudest just beneath and close to the pedastal and further down. Also it is good to hear on the adaptor from the oil filter. That's why I suspect the oil pump but it could also be the drivegear or shaft from the dizzy?

 

Peter

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Could be the the disributor shaft running dry in its bearings. Try squirting a cc of engine oil down the inside of the housing.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks. It looks to me it is further down but I will try!

Peter

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Hi. listened with a long pipe. The sound is the loudest just beneath and close to the pedastal and further down. Also it is good to hear on the adaptor from the oil filter. That's why I suspect the oil pump but it could also be the drivegear or shaft from the dizzy?

 

Peter

Peter, If the oil pressure is OK I doubt its oil pump or anything to do with the camshaft. The sound can travel from its source. I suspect a dry bearing that is not fed by the pump. Disy shaft bearings, or the PI adaptor or the MU input shaft. Disy is easiest to test first.

Someone will recognise the sound and its cause for certain - its new to me. The youtube is great !

Peter

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I had a similar noise from the same area on my 6 last week, turned out to be a resonance

from the fuel by-pass pipe, if I touched the pipe a could feel it vibrating. Had to

fit a new fuel pump to cure it.

 

Harvey S.Maitland

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Peter, If the oil pressure is OK I doubt its oil pump or anything to do with the camshaft. The sound can travel from its source. I suspect a dry bearing that is not fed by the pump. Disy shaft bearings, or the PI adaptor or the MU input shaft. Disy is easiest to test first.

Someone will recognise the sound and its cause for certain - its new to me. The youtube is great !

Peter

Peter: oil pressure is stationary when cold 5 and hot 2, when driving hot 3-4.

I took the dizzy off. There is oil in the pedestal shaft and the bottom end of the dizzy is wet with oil. Just to be sure I did put some extra oil in the shaft and a drop on top of the dizzy. Also disconnected the tachometer cable and put the dizzy back in place. But the sound is still there.

 

PI adaptor, you mean the pedestal?; the bearings are new (there was an oil leak from the little hole on the bottom, toke me ages to find that one out :). The sound was there before I changed the bearings.

MU; is recon from Moss, installed it in april. With the listening pipe on the MU there's almost no high sound.

 

Harvey: The fuel system is totally new from tank, Bosch fuel pump, PRV, pipes, MU and injectors. I will have a look at the by-pass pipe.

 

Peter

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Could it be whine from poor meshing of the oilpump/disy drive gear on the camshaft gear?

 

- does the pitch of the whine rise with rpm in consistent way?

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/sbc-distributor-whine.879619/

- they suggest 'cam walk' - motion of the camshaft forwards and backwards due to shimming being insufficient (between cam groove and front engine plate on TR ).

If your cam is walking the strobe timing light will wander.

There may be a way to check camshaft end float down the pushrod tubes??

 

Or maybe the shimming between the pedestal and block is too thick allowing the driven gear to move up and down excessively. This is easiest to try changing.

 

 

Peter

Edited by Peter Cobbold
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Hi, dismantled the pedestal, took out the MU gear and oiled the seals. Also and again measured in the size of the shim and put a new one in. For now it works and the high sound is gone.

 

But there a new problem, already there, that now get's my attention. There's no pulse on injectors 2 and 3.

Peter, as you suggested in another topic, I took the vacuum from the MU. After 10 seconds there's a very strong pulse on all injectors. After putting back the vacuum ons the MU the pulse disappears on 2 and 3. Tried this several times and one time the pulse on 2 stayed but disappeared on the next start. I took of the MU to see if there's any debris but it is clean. Very carefully built the MU back in. Still, no pulse on 2 and 3. Vacuum off and the strong pulse is back. Vacuum on and it is gone.

The MU is from Moss last april. I drove 400 km without a problem. Pleas advise?

Peter

 

PS: checked timing with strobe and it is not wandering

Edited by pgee
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The presence or absence of a pulse in the injector lines can be hard to judge . Is the engine firing evenly?

 

Where I've had a lack of pulse and misfiring , it has generally gone after blowing the injectors clear with compressed air.

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Peter,

The engine is not misfiring despite the lack of pulses, so those two injectors are supplying fuel.

At tickover the volume of fuel per squirt is tiny,a cubic mm or so, enugh for just afew horsepower. On the road the volume increases and the pulses would probably be felt OK.

From what I remember of the PI that clamp around the hoses is not standard, maybe that is hiding the pulses ?

Peter

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Hi, tried again this morning. It is even worse. Engine is running on 3 cylinders, so misfiring a lot, with a strong pulse in those fuel leads. I pulled the other injectors and they are only dripping a bit or giving no fuel. Blowed them with air but it doesn't help. Cleaned them with carb cleaner, no effect. Pulling off the vacuum helps getting a pulse but immediately is gone after putting back the vacuum. One injector is faster dripping but no nice spray.

I don't know where to start from here.

Edited by pgee
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Are you bleeding the injectors with them pointing upwards? Else you may not be getting all the air out..

Cheers

Tim

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Are you bleeding the injectors with them pointing upwards? Else you may not be getting all the air out..

Cheers

Tim

And free the hoses from that clamp too, hold the entire hose upwards from MU to injector.

Point the injector into a jar to catch the fuel.

Have a fire extinguisher to hand.

Get a helper to blip the throttle.

Peter

Edited by Peter Cobbold
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Bleed injectors as Peters advise, remember to lift the pintle valve open

using finger nails ( not pliers ),keep the valve open until petrol starts

to flow, close valve to check spray & repeat if necessary until consistent

spray pattern ( advise eye protection )

 

Harvey S.Maitland

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Today I tried bleeding the injectors by pulling the tip and holding the injector upwards. Cylinder 2 starts spraying. I started the engine on 4 legs and kept going on with the bleeding. 1 and 3 only drip and when I pull the tip it looks like there are coming small bubbles of air with the fuel drips.

After 30 minutes with no engine running (it was going hot) I took of injector 1 and it is empty? Took the fuel line off and the outlet on the MU. I see no debris. Blow with compressed air the outlet and hear it closing correctly. Also blow the injector. Put it all back but still injector 1 drips, also injector 3 keeps dripping.

 

I changed injector 1 with the working injector 2. Did the bleeding. But now I cannot get 1, 2 and 3 working.

 

So, in all I did bleed the dripping injectors for 2 hours.

 

I can keep going on trying to bleed the injectors this way but it looks like an endless road. Could there be so much air in the system?

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Put the injectors back in and drive the car. That will push more lots more fuel towards the injectors and might clear them. If that has not cured misfiring after say ten minutes' driving, replace the faulty ones. Full throttle up a steep hill....you don't need high rpm.

Peter

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