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Late TR4-6 Top Ball Joints


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I'm led to believe that lot of cheaper ball joints don't allow the required articulation and can bottom out before the bump stop is reached particularly on cars fitted with with adjustable top fulcrums.

Does anyone know the manufacturer of the ones which allow the full travel?

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Hi Roger,

 

Thank you for raising this issue which I raised with you a few weeks ago - but your answer is misleading.

 

Moss sell a top ball joint which they claim to be OEM but isn't, despite their insistence to the contrary. I know because I bought one as a replacement for an original one on my TR4 a few weeks ago. The joint supplied by Moss has a slightly wider diameter pin (a few thou) which doesn't fit comfortably in the taper in the vertical link and is too wide for the original washer to fit. The nut is also larger than standard, the original (excuse my non AF language) is approximately 19mm across the flats whereas the Moss version is 22mm.

 

The cheaper version that Roger refers to, also sold by Moss, has similar dimensional issues and lacks a grease nipple.

 

I tried the TR Shop to see what they had on offer and again the dimensions of their offering are wrong, as above.

 

The only other supplier I've tried is Revington's, who supply a similar non OEM product at a similar price. They also offer a CNC machined ball joint joint made of superior material which is made specially for them. It has full articulation and the dimensions of the pin are as original. The nyloc nut on the end is approx 19mm across the flats, also as original.

 

From memory the price of this joint is around £54 compared to approx. £13 for the Moss version. I've reluctantly just changed the 'new' Moss version for this.

 

The bad news is that last weekend, at IWE, I came across a brand new NOS Quinton Hazel OEM version which had the correct dimensions and at a price of £5!

 

You pays yer money !!!!!?

 

Cheers,

 

JeffR

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Hi all

 

This has set me off now. I'm in the midst of rebuilding my 4a Chassis and as you do bought a load of bits in advance from the TR Shop, which included 2 x Top Ball Joints which turned out to be no grease nipple ones, I fitted them a few weeks ago but still haven't connected the Vertical Links due to other issues. But based on this post I've just measured them,

 

Yes the nut A/F is just under 22mm, the old one was 19mm. The old thread is 1/2 inch, the new one is circa a mil bigger. At .545 dia. The taper is, I reckon there or thereabouts, might be very slightly bigger on the new one, not easy to measure a tapered end. I haven't yet offered it to the VL tapered hole. I'm sure the bag they were in was marked Powertune.

 

When this happens you start to lose faith in what you are buying.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

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B888eration , cant anyone supply parts to correct OE spec these days?

Yet anothe problem part to bookmark.

Tks for the heads up.

Peter

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Yes Peter, I despair! It is all very worrying. I try & buy stuff from the people that race or rally these cars even if the price might be higher.

Cheers.

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Direct replacement parts should certainly feature the same threads as the original or the factory torque settings will no longer be valid. An important factor on suspension, steering and brake components.

Parts which differ from the original should be supplied with full fitting instructions which includes the modified torque values.

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even if the price might be higher.

Cheers.

I can't believe that current TR owners are that price sensitive.

Although the "race and rally" suppliers are often berated for being more expensive than the bigger suppliers when quizzed about the difference they normally show that the product in question is not the same and can justify the difference.

Maybe if we all use premium products then the price could be dropped as the demand rises.

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Hi Andrew,

a few years back Steve Redway did an interview with one of the big supplier's Boss and the question of quality parts came up.

The boss was adamant that if there was a choice between a cheap item and the expensive item it would be the cheap item that shot off the shelf.

he had the stock numbers and sales to prove this.

It appears that the TR brigade are a mean bunch.

 

Recently I was at a meeting with the same suppliers chief engineer and a similar question was raised.

I suggested that if I was running the show I would only sell the quality expensive item.

The chief said I would go out of business pretty quick.

 

There are too many people selling cheap rubbish - and then there is Ebay.

 

The buyer needs to investigate the parts through the club/group or friends.

 

Roger

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Something tells me that this ball joint could be the same as fitted to e types, but I haven't checked it out myself, somebody may know?

I've looked now and I'm wrong sorry, but I'm sure I've seen that joint used on some other car.

John

Edited by John L
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Hi Folks,

I've just ordered two QH top ball joints off EBay for £24. Should be interesting what turns up

 

Would the GT6 be the same as there appear to be a few of them around

 

Roger

Edited by RogerH
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I can't believe that current TR owners are that price sensitive.

Although the "race and rally" suppliers are often berated for being more expensive than the bigger suppliers when quizzed about the difference they normally show that the product in question is not the same and can justify the difference.

Maybe if we all use premium products then the price could be dropped as the demand rises.

Hear, hear!

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Hi

 

Roger has done what I was contempalting to do, buy QH from E bay, but held back on the basis I couldn't find QH Triumph TBJ for sale anywhere else, which made me suspicious. So yes Roger, be keen to hear your feedback when they land.

 

Incidentally I looked in my box of as yet unopened new parts to see Track Rod Ends in there, the bag also says Powertune on it. Ooeer.

 

Ian

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" I can't believe that current TR owners are that price sensitive. "

 

You may very well think so . . . . .

 

They are, and always have been, which is why we get the modest calibre of so many repro parts.

 

Nothing new there though, back in the day we thought of many Stanpart items as rubbish quality compared to, say, FoMoCo or MoPar - made down to a price, fitted where it touched, and only then after fettling. You got what you paid for.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

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Hi Folks,

I've just ordered two QH top ball joints off EBay for £24. Should be interesting what turns up

 

Would the GT6 be the same as there appear to be a few of them around

 

Roger

Hi Roger,

 

Sorry to disappoint, GT6 ball joints are smaller than TR4-6, as are pretty well all the front suspension components.

 

 

Nigel

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The QH part number for a TR4-6 top ball joint is QSJ100 (possibly with an 'S' suffix)

 

I had always thought Alford and Alder were OE supply for TR ball joints, as in fitted to the cars when built. (A & A)

 

What Unipart may have sourced and stuck in a Stanpart box after the cars were no longer going down the build track is any one's guess.

 

QH were an aftermarket company then at Colwyn Bay producing a vast range of components.

 

Peter W

 

PS - Roger - first search turned these up http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/QH-FRONT-BALL-JOINT-UPPER-RC492110P-TO-FIT-TRIUMPH-TR-5-2-5-67-68-OE-QUALITY-/110924104229

Do not forget the front suspension of TR4A-6 was also fitted to some flavours of Reliant Scimitar. Beware, they too have junk parts being peddled as 'OE Quality'.

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
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Perhaps we can get an answer from those who prepare our cars for racing/rallying or even those who do the driving, just where they get quality parts that are good enough for track use etc? Tom Boyd & Mick immediately spring to mind!

Regards.

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HI all

 

I spoke to a very helpful guy in technical Dept at QH this afternoon, must be somewhere near Manchester 0161 764 5981. He couldn't find a current live QH part number for the Top Ball Joint. But had a live number for the Track Rod End, QR1549S.

 

Ian

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Hi Monty,

speak to Revington and Racetorations.

 

Roger

Hi Roger,

Yes they are always on my list whenever I need something.

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The QH part number for a TR4-6 top ball joint is QSJ100 (possibly with an 'S' suffix)

 

I had always thought Alford and Alder were OE supply for TR ball joints, as in fitted to the cars when built. (A & A)

 

What Unipart may have sourced and stuck in a Stanpart box after the cars were no longer going down the build track is any one's guess.

 

QH were an aftermarket company then at Colwyn Bay producing a vast range of components.

 

Peter W

 

PS - Roger - first search turned these up http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/QH-FRONT-BALL-JOINT-UPPER-RC492110P-TO-FIT-TRIUMPH-TR-5-2-5-67-68-OE-QUALITY-/110924104229

Do not forget the front suspension of TR4A-6 was also fitted to some flavours of Reliant Scimitar. Beware, they too have junk parts being peddled as 'OE Quality'.

 

Hi Peter W yes you are right that is the QH TBJ part number and it needs the S suffix. Amazon sell them, sorry can't add a link, but this is the Amazon ref number. B006ELTHYY. £24.37 each I've just ordered 2. They also sell the TRE as well.

 

Ian

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I've been following this as I may need to replace both my ball joints and I'm confused as I see Moss offer 3 TBP options, one of which has part number QHQSJ100 at £22.20 - is that not the QH item?

 

Regards

 

Steve

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Hi all

 

I order a pair of QH TBJ part number QSJ100S, they arrived today but unfortunately they are the same as the pair I purchased elsewhere a few months ago, in that the thread and nut a/f is bigger than original The thread measure .545 inch which I reckon is 14mm, and the nut a/f is 22mm, as per the one previously purchased.

 

I'm not sure where to take this now other than return them and stick my hand in my pocket and but a pair from Revington. I do have a number for the QH Technical depot so I might just ring them tomorrow to see if they can shed any light on why the item isn't quite as original.

 

 

 

 

Ian

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Edited by meesonia
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