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Hi again.

 

I need some help once more!

I want to remove and clean the sump and replace the gasket.

The oil that came out of the car is like the sky without stars. Black and impenetrable!

 

I have removed all the sump bolts after draining the oil, but the sump is not budging with reasonable hand pressure.

Am I missing something to loosen the sump other than the bolts from underneath?

So I need to pry it loose?

Perhaps it is stuck due to old and gummy oil and needs a bit more force to get off?

 

I assumed when replacing this gasket that it is just removing the bottom bolts and take off the pan, clean and refit.

Are there other parts that will come off with the sump or am I correct that the sump is separate and is really just the pan and gasket?

 

On a similar topic...my old filter o-ring is stuck inside the filter head. How do I get it completely out without damaging anything?

Can I just pinch it out somehow with needlenose pliers or use a knife or sharp ping to somehow "hook" it out?

 

Dirk

Edited by irrational
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The ring - two needles, stuck in at an angle towards each other, so that you can lift that bit of seal. The rest will follow.

OR, if you wil replace it - most recommended - cut it with a narrow bladed screwdriver and a tap of hammer and lift on end out. The rest will follow.

 

I hesitate to suggest anything on the sump, from TR2 ignorance, but a large screwdriver, tapped into the old gasket and gently levered should shift it, if all the bolts are out.

JOhn

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Ah, thank you John. I'll give the needle trick a go!

 

I forgot to ask, do I need to add oil to the filter bowl before putting it back?

 

Also something weird. There seems to be a little ring around the impeller.

I am noit ure if this is something that came loose form the old filter. It looks a bit like a giant rubber washer around the blades and seems like it could be loose.

Should there be anything on the impeller or should it be clear metal like the water pump?

 

Dirk

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Haha.

Its no issue. I just like to have all the possible information I can on anything.

I think it shouldn't be required to prefill a filter since you pour oil at the top of the engine and there is a filter of sorts in the sump.

 

As for what the purolator head should look like. I am just a little unsure and do not want to make mistakes!

I think the ring might be off the old filter and just got stuck on the impeller. Its just hard to find photos online of that inside view of the filter head.

Maybe I just don't give the Triumph robustness enough credit?

 

Dirk

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The ease with which the sump comes off depends on what it was stuck on with!

 

If it's anything like a 4 getting a screwdriver in for leverage is not easy, work gently and it will come off. There will be no other parts in the way with the sump, but beware of the oil drips for a few days!!

 

Clean both surfaces, sump and block, check the sump is not distorted from being overtightened with a straight edge, use a suitable gasket sealer (follow the instructions) before refitting and be careful not to overtighten the bolts. I use Wellseal.

 

In relation to the filter: all that needs to be replaced are the filter and the rubber seal, as far as I'm aware there is nothing to come loose inside the filter head. Not sure what the impeller you refer to is.....

 

Before starting the car after an oil change I usually disconect the coil and crank the engine over until the oil pressure rises, as filling the bowl can be messy, check oil level again and top-up, then reconect the coil and fire away.

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Dirk:

As to removing the o-ring gasket from a cannister oil filter, I went to a dentist friend and once I explained why the need, I asked him if he had an old dental pick that needed recycling. Have been useing that tool for many years now and works like a charm!

 

Lou Metelko

Auburn, Indiana USA

54 TR2LD

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All sump screws out (on 4 sides)

loosen/Remove clutch bracket steady stay (and block vent pipe if fitted)

One or two taps with a hide mallet and its off

Do not get enthusiastic with levers for fear of damaging the mating surfaces.

 

Beware the oil pump and pick up once the sump is loose and ready to be removed - sump must drop straight down to clear same.

 

Peter W

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Hello Dirk,

 

When you say “Impeller” you may be referring to the cast part of the head where the long bolt screws into. It does indeed look like an impellor (four sided star casting), but it is just part of the head.

 

Take a look at the new filter cartridge and you should see a rubber ring on the top and on the bottom. It may well be that the ring at the top has come off the old filter cartridge and got stuck on the casting. If so you can just pry it off.

 

As far as dental picks are concerned, you can get a set of 6 on eBay for about £3. I bought them several years ago and find 101 uses for them.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Charlie D.

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Hi Dirk, if you are doing this on your own lying on your back under the car it is virtually impossible, I put put four studs (cut down bolts) and used them to locate the sump, two front and two back, and put two nuts on tohold the sump, I replaced the bolts with cap head screws as easier to use an allen key when working upside down, good look, Andrew

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Great, the TR2 crew have ridden into town!

 

Dirk, if kobb's remark, " check the sump is not distorted from being overtightened with a straight edge" isn't clear, may I offer my post over on the TSSC board?

http://forum.tssc.org.uk/index.php?/topic/108-correcting-the-sump-flange-to-prevent-leaks/?hl=%2Bsump+%2Bflange

 

John

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+I for Peter W's advice. As for removing the rubber seal from the filter head, being too tight to invest in a pick I have always simply used a pin held firmly in a long nose mole wrench.

 

Tim

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Great advice as always!

I will have a try at these things this evening, thank you.

 

I could leave the sump on, but I believe, as well as the car runs, it has not been really maintained for at least 10 years and the oil is really old and dirty so may be rather acidic which is why I want to clean it out as much as I can.

I am sure its prudent to replace the gaskets and wash out what I can to make sure the engine is healthy going forward. The water pump and fuel sediment bowl gaskets I replaced were quite hardened even if not leaking yet. The rocker cover gasket is definitely weeping and is next on my list.

My other option is to give the work to someone else that can include the timing chain at the same time. But I don't think this is necessary as the TR runs quiet and smoothly.

It does leak though.

Its not easy to spot between everything else but there is oil at the back of the sump next to the gearbox and the bolts that came out are all covered in oil as well. There is weeping in several spots.

It does not look like the oil is coming from the gearbox (bell housing?) but it could be.

The slave cylinder seal is also perished so there is lots of fluid around. It looks like the gearbox is fine and it shifts well, but I will drain the oil from that as a matter of maintenance.

The diff is also leaking. 8)

 

So I have decided I did not so much buy a TR as rescue one!

 

Dirk

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Dirk ~

 

I think you're perfectly correct in removing your sump to clean it out.

Here are two photo's of my sump when I rebuilt my 3A.

 

My car had been given regular oil changes and always run at proper temperatures.

 

Make sure you use a cork sump gasket.

 

Tom.

 

 

Edited by Fireman049
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The oil filter is now sorted. I managed using one of those picks you use to cut sewed thread. Although I can't check its correct until after the sump!

The sump, however is not budging. I am under the car as I raised it on stands, but there isn't a lot of space even so.

I have the bottom end gasket set from moss, which does not have a cork sump gasket, but I see there has been several discussions about this. I am keen on originality where possible and sensible.

I am wondering if I shouldn't temporarily re-bolt it and source a cork gasket.

I see Revington lists a cork one.

Then I could ask the person doing my clutch if he can fit it for me since he has all the lifts and tools and expertise.

 

Hmm. I also found this:

http://www.jmgaskets-seals.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=HGD016C

 

After some more reading regarding the gasket type, I have decided to refit the bolts and source a cork gasket first.

I won't do much driving and I am sure there won't be more oil than there already is.

The PO was a mechanic so I don't think he overtightened. It didn't seem so while I removed them.

Thanks for the valuable info again!

 

Dirk

Edited by irrational
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One last question though.

Should all the bolts around the sump be the same length?

The ones I have seem to have 2 longer bolts.

1 is an the 3rd bolt on the gearbox side (away from the slave cylinder side)

The other is the one at the corner at the slave cylinder (1 towards the gearbox from the slave cylinder stabiliser)

 

Dirk

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Thank you.

 

I am suspecting the PO then put the wrong bolt somewhere.

The vent pipe one is longer. The longest actually.

The stay rod one is currently not longer than others, but that one at the back is. Perhaps they were swapped somehow.

Anyway with new oil in there seem to be no leaks from filter or sump after re-fitting the filter and re-tightening the sump bolts. Oil pressure is a healthy, super steady 70psi.

For the record I used SAE-40 API SF/CD oil.

 

Dirk

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Another method of removing the sump is to remove drain plug, insert a long round bar just thru plug hole into sump, lever using a suitable thickness wood block between round bar and underside of chassis. leave 4 x sump bolts in but unscrewed about 1/8 " to stop sump from dropping to floor as you only have to break the seal. Modern form a gasket type compounds are good but do not like letting go.

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