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Battery recommendations please


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Looking for recommendations for a new battery please, did like the idea of the 'classic' looking ones but now thinking of something more sealed for life without the risk of the exposed links on top.

 

Many Thanks

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In the mean time I have replaced the batteries on the 6 and the 3 several times.

As the cars are not used often I noticed that buying cheap ment for me short battery life span, some did not last 3 years.

 

On the 6 I now got a Yuasa Calcium 70AH for about 5 years and it still works... ;)

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I use an Optima Redtop on my 5 (815 cca,100 ah). Not cheap, but it has performed very well for me. It's the high CCA figure that I look for.

Cheers, Darren

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I am not bothered about original appearance, only high reserve capacity since I am still running with a dynamo. I have a Varta Blue Dynamic G8 battery (95Ah and 830 CCA)in the 4A and am very happy with it. If the car will be standing for more than a week or two I connect to a battery conditioner so it is always kept fully charged.

 

Tim

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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250-334-Bosch-Sealed-Car-Van-Battery-S4029-12V-95Ah-830CCA-4-Years-Wty-/252267913242?hash=item3abc56e01a:g:3QcAAOSwX~dWqIwn

 

The battery above gives 830cca, has 4yr warranty and is about as big a battery you can fit in the battery space........and it's Bosch, the best you can get IMHO.

 

Shop around though, you may get it cheaper than from the eBay link above.

 

Regards,

Richard.

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AFAIK the Bosch S4029 is made by for them by Varta anyway. The appearance and specification is identical to mine and the same 4 year guarantee is offered.

 

Tim

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I have the Bosch, but owing to my neglect last winter it failed with a few weeks left on warranty, they replaced straightaway with a new one FOC.

 

I now have two of these battery conditioners for my two old cars. :)

 

http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/garage-equipment/battery-chargers-jump-starters/ctek-xs0-8-battery-charger

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My battery packed last year after nearly 15 years of being in the TR6, after looking at the post "TR6 Battery" I too tried Tayna @ https://www.tayna.co...teries-G23.html A brilliant service, a good price and received battery next day.


The type of battery required is 072 it has the positive on the front lhs. I bought a 072 Enduroline 70Ah 640CCA, no problems so far.


Vince.


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  • 2 years later...

Battery needed, for  72 TR6

Having read through various posts on the subject, my  basic understanding is as many Cold Cranking Amps as possible and a large amp hour rating are desirable.

 

Bosh S4029 and Varta Blue G8 have been recommended by a few members and have big numbers referring to above  CCA 830 and 95 Ah,  but I note they are 306mm long x 173 x 225 high 

The measurement between the flanges in the battery compartment are 315mm, less the J bolts.

At retaining plate inside J bolts 300mm.

So question is do they fit, without a hacksaw ?

Phil

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Perhaps if you reverse the J bolts so they are outside the brackets......?.   Those batteries are a bit big and you don't really need anything so large. The standard 072  size battery should be perfectly fine. You don't need a super-large Ampere-hour rating unless you intend using the battery a lot with the engine off but a big CCA is good.

Avoid calcium batteries as they are not matched to the charging system. They will work OK but you will never fully charge them, so you pay more for something you never actually use. 

With any lead-acid battery it is imperative that you keep it at full charge, by using a battery conditioner if the car is only used intermittently. That will prevent sulphation of the plates, which is the reason many people find batteries do not last long.

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On 5/5/2020 at 6:24 PM, Phil H 4 said:

Battery needed, for  72 TR6

Having read through various posts on the subject, my  basic understanding is as many Cold Cranking Amps as possible and a large amp hour rating are desirable.

 

Bosh S4029 and Varta Blue G8 have been recommended by a few members and have big numbers referring to above  CCA 830 and 95 Ah,  but I note they are 306mm long x 173 x 225 high 

The measurement between the flanges in the battery compartment are 315mm, less the J bolts.

At retaining plate inside J bolts 300mm.

So question is do they fit, without a hacksaw ?

Phil

Phil yes the Varta fits as that’s what I have fitted it even fits with the Moss battery tray  but it is a very snug fit 

Edited by Graham
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2 minutes ago, RobH said:

Perhaps if you reverse the J bolts so they are outside the brackets......?.   Those batteries are a bit big and you don't really need anything so large. The standard 072  size battery should be perfectly fine. You don't need a super-large Ampere-hour rating unless you intend using the battery a lot with the engine off but a big CCA is good.

Avoid calcium batteries as they are not matched to the charging system. They will work OK but you will never fully charge them, so you pay more for something you never actually use. 

With any lead-acid battery it is imperative that you keep it at full charge, by using a battery conditioner if the car is only used intermittently. That will prevent sulphation of the plates, which is the reason many people find batteries do not last long.

Rob your correct on both counts you need to reverse the j bolts and on reflection probably far to big 

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  • 2 weeks later...

My Bosch S4-027 (70Ah-630A) is on it’s last legs. It came with the car (TR-6-PI) when I bought it in 2015, and I charged it a couple of times a year during these 5 years of restoration. I plan to buy the same capacity/make but was wondering if there are batteries with the poles further from the side, in order to have more clearance between the strap and the positive pole.

Also, I also see Rob (H) mentions calcium type batteries are not needed for our cars because they will not be fully charged with a Lucas ACR alternator. I have a (Ford Fiesta) Bosch 55A alternator, does the same apply for this alternator? Or can I simply measure battery voltage during charging, and if it is more than 14.4 V would it be beneficial to have the Ca-type battery? (Thanks Rob).
 

Note:
Bosch only give 2 years warranty here in Holland, not 5.
 

Cheers,
Waldi

 

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Interesting thread !

May i ask why don’t calcium batteries get fully charged by the ACR alternator ?

my car had a new Halfords 072 Calcium battery in 2012 when i bought it, and thats still going strong !

steve

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Steve - A 'calcium' lead acid battery has a slightly different chemistry and hence cell voltage than does a straight lead acid type and needs a higher voltage from the alternator to charge it fully.  Lucas ACR alternators were designed so that they do not over-charge a standard battery and so had their output voltage set at 14.4 V absolute maximum and may actually be a bit below that depending on tolerances.

Unfortunately that is not quite enough to fully charge a calcium battery which ideally needs 14.8Volts.  It doesn't sound much but that 0.4V does make a difference to the state of charge of the cells. The battery will work, as you say, but you will never get the full capacity from it if you rely on the alternator alone to charge it.  

If you have a modern battery conditioner and use it when the car is garaged, it will probably complete the charge for you as it is likely to be able to provide the extra voltage that the alternator cannot.

Waldi - checking the voltage sounds a good idea, but only run the alternator with a battery connected - don't do it open-circuit or you may damage the diode stack. If your old battery was a standard one and was being charged to a higher voltage than normal I suspect it would probably have required  topping up of the electrolyte quite often.

I think the location of the terminals is a fairly standard pattern but it may be possible to find a battery of the same size with the terminal polarity reversed end-to-end, so that the battery could be mounted the other way round with the terminals away from the clamping bar. 

Rob

Edited by RobH
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Hi Rob,

thanks for the thorough explanation (as always). Bosch and others do sell the batteries with same size/capacity but the polarity reversed, so this is an option for everyone who is replacing their battery to eliminate the potential for short circuiting the positive pole to the battery strap. This will require the negative earth to be “made a bit longer”, possibly replaced. I will see if I can modify it to suit. It is difficult to find pole-positions (locations I mean for batteries on the www.

I will check the voltage of my alternator and see how it is set.
The current Bosch S4-027 is a Ca-type battery.

Do you know if a non-Ca type battery of the same rated capacity (like 70 Ah) have more actual capacity when charged at the lower (14.4) voltage, compared to a Ca-type battery?

Thanks,
Waldi

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Thanks for the explanation Rob

didnt know that the ‘calcium’ tag meant different chemistry in the battery !

steve

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15 hours ago, Waldi said:

Do you know if a non-Ca type battery of the same rated capacity (like 70 Ah) have more actual capacity when charged at the lower (14.4) voltage, compared to a Ca-type battery?

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anything much in the way of published information on the relative battery characteristics so I don't know for sure just how much capacity is 'lost' ( or rather 'unused'). Manufacturers assume that the battery will be charged as per specification, so do not publish information on what will happen if it isn't.

The shortfall may be up to 15%  in which case the 70Ah calcium battery may really only have 60Ah available. The stated CCA figure may also be lowered a little as that will be quoted at a full charge. 

Of course these can both be offset in practice if the Ca battery has a higher rating to start with.  

Edited by RobH
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Thanks Rob,

I just measured my old battery: 10.8V after removing the charger, so time to get a new one, I do not even want to attempt a starting, so no testing (yet).

Will see what my local automotive shop has to offer tomorrow.

Cheers,

Waldi

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The following is only my opinion, and others may have more and/or better technical information. Make your own investigations and please don't treat the following as technical advice. Any terms you don't quite get - google them. Trust me, it will all make sense.

[Waldi - how old is your battery, what chemistry is it, and have you attached it to a very large capacity charger - say 40Amp 12V capacity? It might just need a giant (electrical) kick in the guts to de-sulphate the plates. If the charger does not have enough capacity, the battery will not respond in reversing the ionic, chemical and metallurgical reaction.]

In choosing a battery -

Firstly, the best research you can do is to google the difference between CCA (Cold Cranking Amps), CA (Cranking Amps), HCA (Hot Cranking Amps) and Ah (Amp Hour) capacity.

You will eventually figure out that the CCA rating is a basic industry standard comparative measure as to what the battery can deliver in cranking Amps at 0 degreesF for 30 seconds to a cut-off Voltage of 7.2V, ie, probably meaningless in real life terms unless you keep your car in a storage area which regularly experiences sub-zero temperatures.. CA is the same thing, but at 32 degF/0degC.

HCA gives us a more realistic starting capacity (given our cars are mostly mollycoddled and live in heated garages most winters and come out to play in Spring/summer), and gives us guidance as to what the battery is capable of delivering in a 'normal' environment, calculations are similar to above, but at 80 degF.

Ah rating is the stored capacity of the battery and is a measure of how may Amps the battery can deliver for (normally) 10 hours at a specified rate, ie a 50Ah C10 battery can deliver 5Amps for 10 hours, normally measured to 1.8V per cell (there are 6 cells in a 12V Lead Acid Battery).

Here's the tricky bit - your generator/alternator system can only put out so many Amps - many of the Dark Lord's ACR17 and 18 series are only good for 35 or 45 Amps when new, and the output tends to fall away a bit as they and the vehicle wiring age. Triumph wiring looms are notoriously under-sized, so Voltage drop is quite significant. This will pop up later, so remember it..

Here's some basic Chemistry as hopefully a simplified explanation:

Your battery needs to be charged at a minimum rate of between C6 and C10 to reverse a chemical reaction in the battery which moves Lead Ions from negative to positive during discharge (ie, starting) and converts the battery acid from acid to water (by a process I won't go into here. Alright, it really happens by magic...google it....) which reduces the strength of the chemical reaction between the acid and the lead plates, so reducing the flow of Ions and the necessity for the electrons to flow from negative terminal to positive terminal to equalise the Voltage differential (via the starter motor, radio, lighting circuits etc)...

As the Ions flow between plates, the plate tends to gain a sulphate layer, (which is analogous to the plaque which can build up on your teeth), and so the surface area of the lead plate which is available for interaction with the Acid is reduced, along with the acid (H2SO4) being reduced by a reaction which releases Hydrogen and Oxygen from the acid to form water (H2O) and hydrogen gas.

You may have experienced the situation where your battery goes flat - curses, damn and blast , walk around for a bit, kick the tyre, hop back in and pray a bit, then surprise the blighter by turning the key quickly without warning - Lo and behold, the battery is back! It might just turn a couple of times then die again, or it might regain enough grunt to start the engine.. depends on the battery quality, battery chemistry, how old it is and how 'flat' you flattened it. The reality is that the remaining acid in the battery has had time to react with the accessible lead and move a few Ions around again.

OK - Recharge - A battery looking for recharge will take as much current as it can get in normal circumstances, so a 55 Ah battery for instance could take 30 or 40Amps for 10 or 15 minutes if it has been allowed to gradually 'flatten', or if it has taken a few extended cranking sessions to start the beast. If you have the lights on, the wipers going, the heater fan, radio etc, the alternator/generator might be working at full capacity to try to supply the load and still provide even 5 Amps of recharge the battery. If you only drive for 30 minutes or so then turn it off, it won't have recharged the battery, and without a charger connected or a long drive, the battery will just continue to decline and degrade, so you'll be replacing it again in a couple of years.

OK, so selecting a battery is fairly simple - look at the recommendation in the vehicle manual for the recommended Battery in CCA, CA, or Ah. Look at the rated output of your alternator/generator. Look at how often you start the and how far you drive it. Look at the recommended charging rates for the battery you are considering. Choose the battery which is as close to the original Ah or CCA specification as possible, unless you have added lots of other electrical bits and pieces which all run at the same time when the beast is running. It's OK to go up a size or two, as battery technology has changed a wee bit since the TR series cars were created, but don't oversize the battery by too much or it will never be charged correctly in the vehicle as the charging system will not have the capacity to charge it. Bigger is not always better in this case.

The output capacity and Voltage adjustment (if any) of your alternator/generator tells you what you rate can recharge the battery at whilst driving with the normal loads. The best way to ensure a full and well maintained battery is to keep it on a multi-stage maintenance charger which charges and maintains the battery when it's in the garage. You can leave these on the battery permanently, and they won't harm the battery.

Look at batteries like the Odyssey battery or the Optima. These are called AGM batteries (Absorption Glass Matt) and have no liquid electrolyte, so they don't tend to boil or spill battery acid, need no topping up and are very robust. Some are also TPPL (Thin plate, pure lead) batteries - the essential thing there is that they are normally more compact because their pure lead plates mean they have more active and pure lead surface to react with the acid, so get better output in a smaller physical size.  The cast grids in lead calcium batteries have to be larger to maintain the necessary strength to survive the vibration in auto use, and the calcium in the alloy is non-reactive, so active surface area is reduced. Other than that, Lead calcium are pretty standard auto batteries and will gie you anything from 12 months to 5 years depending on how you maintain them.

There are lots of other brands out there, but avoid the cheapies- they won't last and are often over-rated junk. You might pay a lot for a good battery but it will probably have a 4 year warranty and will be reliable. Otherwise, buy a cheapie and put the rest towards your roadside assistance membership and keep a good supply of Bicarbonate of Soda handy to kill the green growth and acid spillage..

Oh, and as for some of the Lithium Ion batteries being offered - don't go there - they're great for race cars where every ounce of weight is critical, but they don't like vibration, they don't really like the heat under the bonnet, and there is still a lot of doubt about their safety in a collision where a penetration of the cells could release a high temperature gas stream amongst other amusing traits- some of the more polite engineers call it 'instantaneous deconstruction' because they don't like the word explosion... Not only that, they're more expensive.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post any company-branded technical data on the forum, but I can give a more technical explanation if such is allowed (but it's branded).

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I drove the TR6 to Halfords and bought the highest capacity battery that fitted nicely and had the terminals in the right place. Job done, has worked well for years but I do use a smart charger for extended layups, also Halfords for £14 but sadly no longer available. 

Mick

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