Jump to content

TR3a or TR4a irs, any help welcome


Recommended Posts

Hello everyone

 

Got the green light from Mrs to buy a classic car to really enjoy, like both the TR3a and the TR4a irs, lucky that the money is not the issue. I intend to keep it for many years and obviously wish to get it right. I have a very good mate that has a TR6 and will be soon joining his local group. He says do a lot of research, so here I am.

 

Really would welcome any pointers and comments.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Mike,

 

Both cars are rewarding in very different ways!

 

The 3A is an old fashioned drive with "firm" suspension and few creature comforts (like a heater if you're lucky) - If it rains then it can take several minutes to get the hood and sidescreens on and it can be drafty even when they are fitted, things flap, bang and thud - but very rewarding and drop dead gorgeous when the sun is out.

 

The 4A is a litte more of a refined ride with softer independent rear suspension and wind up windows! To get the hood up in a shower is much swifter than the 3A.

 

Performance from both are similar and "roarty"

 

Overdrive is a desirable option and so is the "surrey" top on the 4A.

 

It comes down to personal preference but my best advice as a dealer is to get the car inspected properly by someone that knows where to look!!

 

Body and Chassis condition is paramount as mechanicals are relatively inexpensive to fix in relation to the body and chassis - pick the best condition car you can for your maximum budget - If you spend a few hundred pounds on a proper inspection it might save you thousands in repair bills further down the line!

 

Good luck in your search - The TR Register is a great club with lots and lots of knowledge freely available!

 

Regards Mark

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Mark for your very helpful post, you have given me some good pointers to consider. ;)

 

Roger, I'm in Essex, between Chelmsford and Colchester.

 

Thanks guys.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike - have sent you a personal message - if you are not sure what that is, go to the very top of the page and you will see an envelope in the black bar close to your name with a red marker on it - click on it and it will open private messages forumites have sent you

 

Cheers

 

Rich

Link to post
Share on other sites

HI Mike

 

Any 4 pot TR is a great idea, and you have the best of the side screen cars and (arguably) the best Michelotti car to choose from

 

You already have some thoughts posted here. Here's another. I traded up from a sidescreen car (Healey) to the relative luxury of a Surrey Top TR4 with wind up windows. Reason: Elaine, who had previously loved the Healey, was more and more reluctant to go out in it unless the journey was short and conditions fantastic. The TR4 restored our 3 season touring and her enjoyment, i.e. willingness to put up with, leaving a perfectly good modern on the drive and wonder abroad far and wide in a 50 year old car ^_^

 

This was the reason for my choice, I'm sure there are a thousand reasons for the choices made by our fellow forum users, each fashioned by circumstance and desire

 

I wonder what yours will finally be (condition and value aside), please share your decision with us

 

''It is often as enjoyable to travel as to arrive''

 

Enjoy !

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Mike and welcome! Is your wife interested in your new project or not? I.e. will she be participating? If so then I suggest you allow her input into the decision! I know several sidescreen owners who struggle to persuade their other halves into the car in all but the most benign of summer weather.....so windup windows may be the way to go!

On the other hand if she is not the slightest bit interested and merely wants you to be out of the house tinkering so she can get on with important stuff then the world is your lobster. Personally I'd recommend the sidescreen route (oh and TR3's are far nicer than TR3A's..????) If you are really lucky then your other half is as mad (or in my case madder) than you and wants to drive around in all weather with aeroscreens fitted ????.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you go the 4A route, I did, rust around the 'cruciform' part of the chassis is a favorite occurrence. Any holes from 1 to eleventy twelve, mean it's there.

In my case it didn't matter as I bought it as a 'project', but that's the area where I developed my welding skills(??).

Edited by littlejim
Link to post
Share on other sites

The TR3A and TR4A do indeed offer very different driving experiences.

 

Having driven quite a few TR3/3As and quite a few (IRS) TR6s (that are

not that dissimilar from the TR4A, I have settled for driving . . . . .

 

TR4s.

 

AlanR

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would second the comments above about wives. My wife is extremely reluctant to go in my TR3a, not because of the draughts but because she feels so exposed in such a small car with no sides to it. She has had an MX5 in the past and currently has an SLK on which the top comes down at every opportunity but a 3a is a completely different experience.

 

Rgds Ian

Link to post
Share on other sites

The TR4A, being the first of the IRS TRs, has some fundamental weaknesses:

1 - chassis is waisted in the middle, hence more flexible in torsion

2- brackets holding the front lower wishbones to chassis and rear semi-trailing arms to chassis were inadequately fixed as built - most now modified

3- weakness in bridge to which differential and rear suspension are mounted - probably strengthened?

4 - six joints in drive train between gearbox and wheels (earlier cars had 2)

5 - weakness in rear hub assemblies

6 - undesirable camber changes at rear end between power on/off and when hitting bumps (wobbly wheel syndrome!)..

 

That said, rack & pinion steering, face level ventilation, synchromesh on all forward gears, wind-up windows and somewhat larger boot are all plus points.

 

The real answer is a TR4, which has all the plus points (and note Mike North's comments about acceptability to his wife) and none of the weaknesses which I have listed.

 

Ian Cornish

Link to post
Share on other sites

The TR4A, being the first of the IRS TRs, has some fundamental weaknesses:

1 - chassis is waisted in the middle, hence more flexible in torsion

2- brackets holding the front lower wishbones to chassis and rear semi-trailing arms to chassis were inadequately fixed as built - most now modified

3- weakness in bridge to which differential and rear suspension are mounted - probably strengthened?

4 - six joints in drive train between gearbox and wheels (earlier cars had 2)

5 - weakness in rear hub assemblies

6 - undesirable camber changes at rear end between power on/off and when hitting bumps (wobbly wheel syndrome!)..

 

That said, rack & pinion steering, face level ventilation, synchromesh on all forward gears, wind-up windows and somewhat larger boot are all plus points.

 

The real answer is a TR4, which has all the plus points (and note Mike North's comments about acceptability to his wife) and none of the weaknesses which I have listed.

 

Ian Cornish

However with the suspension properly set up, the 4A is fantastic fun to drive, if you can find a long windy (bendy) road!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a tad biased, but as with Alan R

 

It's a TR4 for me

Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all: welcome! Secondly. We don't read the

 

 

 

Got the green light from Mrs to buy a classic car to really enjoy,

-sentence here very often! In most cases we ask the postman to hide the parcels from Moss under the hedge or behind the dustbin...

 

TR-wise? Simple: everything after the 3B is for whimps. Wind up windows, 'comfort', etc? Nonsense. And then people sitting behind the high windscreen, with the windows up and sometimes even a windbreaker behind the seats... you see them wearing a sheepskin flight jacket! As if...

 

Lately (age related perhaps?) we see 'how to install a windbreaker behind the front seats' threads and '...oh Clayton has a better heater for TR now!' postings. Not a good sign.

 

On the other hand: when you want to enjoy the company of your wife on your trips, I would go for the 4. My wife thinks that my 3A is a coffin on harps (w/wheels) and refuses to get in - in 15 yr of ownership she never sat in the car - which makes trips comfortably (relatively) quiet.

 

M

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike,

 

As said above the decision to opt for a side-screen TR2-3A or a later TR4, 4A is a personal one dependant on your preferences and priorities. Having owned 2 x TR2's , 2 x Tr3A's a Tr4 and a 4A I will however add my four pennies worth.

 

The 4 and 4A are definitely more refined but if you are not a purist, rack and pinion steering can easily be installed in a side-screen car.

 

I did not like the 4As tendency to squat when accelerating and much preferred the solid rear axle of the TR4. The 4A is no doubt a more comfortable ride but not as much fun as a solid rear axle. The side screen cars do tend to let in rain a little even one that has been properly restored. In my experience the 4 and 4A are more weather resistant. Having said that I hate driving the 3A with the hood up they tend to be a bit cramped inside and have hardly ever used the hood etc.

 

As said above, trot along to your local TR meet and chat with the owners who I am sure will be only too pleased to take you out for a ride. That will give you far more insight than anything else.

Whatever you choose, owners of side screen and 4/4A TR's are fortunate in having probably the best supply of spares to keep them mobile than most other marques.

 

 

When you have decided on the model of TR, have a look at several before parting with your hard earned, and take with you someone who knows TRs, their advice could save you £000's later on. It is far to easy to buy a TR with your heart after an exciting run around the block and regret it later as the bills mount up. Bodywork is very costly to put right and defects on the surface are generally only the tip of the iceberg !

 

Best of luck!

Edited by Paul Down
Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to say a huge thank you to everyone that contributed on this forum, you have all given me something to think about in one way or another.

 

Initially I was hell bent on a TR3, just love that body, now I'm swaying to a TR4 irs as I really do want my good lady to accompany me on day outs and any tours the club arranges.

 

That said I will go to a TR club in my county of Essex, converse a lot with my mate who has a TR6, and actually sit and if lucky drive a few cars.

 

You guys have been so good, I'm really pleased I signed up on the TR-Register which enabled me to gain access to this forum, more so with the confidence that I can post again on here for more valued and important information.

 

I will let you know what I decide, if someone can let me know if it's best to refer back to this thread with an update (might be a few months) or start a new thread once I have a TR.

 

Thanks again everyone,

 

Mike

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good luck with the search. I was a bit like you - not really bothered between a 3 or a 4.

 

In the end I plumped for a 3 because I was looking for something a little more "classic" and the sidescreens, cut away doors and front wing profile swung it for me. One thing that transformed driving the car with the roof off was leaving the sidescreens fitted, which I did for the first time over Christmas in about 5 degree wather. It's night and day to removing them and cuts out the cross wind that chills your side.

 

Apart from local TR meets, I tend to see a lot of 4's at car shows and rarely, if ever, see another 3. If owning something a little rarer is something you consider important, a 3 is a fairly uncommon sight on British roads.

 

I'm also a fan of the Goodwood events and a TR4a isn't eligible to get into the Lavant/Chicane/Hawthorne parking areas if it's 1967. A very minor detail, and of no importance if you never intend to park infield at Goodwood, but the fact my car gets me access to the best parking (at a price!) is an added bonus I hadn't considered when I bought it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike, you took the sensible route: joining here and only after that start looking for the car you really want! Best thing to do is -indeed- talk to people who own one, invite yourself to be passenger in a car etc.

Along the way you'll notice that questions appear faster than answers. Go out and try to find a few good books; the Register's webshop has a few titles and there's more on eBay and Amazon (used). Don't be fooled to pay absurd prices for a book because it's out of stock. There's a chance that you can get the answer here for free.

 

Read as much as you can about the cars on the forum. If you cannot imagine how it looks like IRL, ask for a pic. It will help you to get '360 view' (to use a modern phrase).

 

Select a person/persons from the club or Group to go with you when you've spotted a car. And be sure to pay them a lunch along the way (and a drink after you've returned home) It will help you when you ask them again for another car!

 

Two final tips: buy the best car you can get for your money. Don't think: "Oh I will get that sorted when the car is in my garage..." there will be plenty of other things to do.

And before you buy one: go to a Sunday meeting with your wife. If it's important for you that she's about to become part of the trips, you'll need her 'approval' when it comes to the social life of TR'ing as well. (In my case I didn't bother - I already owned classic cars before I met my wife and I knew from the start that she wouldn't want to get involved, so technically nothing changed after we met).

 

Menno

Edited by Menno van Rij 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike

I had a radical moment last year.

I had a Daimler SP250. A lovely example 2.5L V8 fibreglass bodied car and wind up windows.

But I wanted to do some classic car Motorsport. (It's a family heritage thing - don't ask !!) and I didn't want to risk the fibreglass body of the SP.

My dad has a mate in the auction trade who put me on to a good example TR3a that had been tweaked (in the 70's/80's) by the previous long term owner.

I put in a bid (car unseen) not expecting to win it.

Yup I won it. I had to sell the SP v quick as I only have a small concrete prefab garage and budget for one car !! One in one out

I have used the car since last summer and been to my local (redrose) group I have been messing with the car to get it up to scrutineers standards all winter.

 

And I just love it. The best car choice ever and on a whim. Roof down no side screens and latterly only front fly screens. Wonderful stuff.

And I have signed up to my first sprints and hill climbs for it too through the TR register. So fingers crossed. But 99% of the use will be weekend and summer evening fun trips out.

 

Which ever you get you'll love the TR car and this forum and the TR register club and local groups are a great bunch (on the whole????)

 

I wish you success and enjoyment

H

Link to post
Share on other sites

TR3A +++++++++++++

 

Beautiful and 4 cars in one:

 

fantastic in good weather with hood and sidescreens off

great in wind with hood off and sidescreens fitted

great if you want to shade from the sun: sidescreens off, hood on (as I tend to drive often here in Portugal with summer temperatures sometimes over 40º)

...but not so nice with hood and sidescreens on especially when it rains!

 

...and fantastic if you want to feel a 60-year-old car, and drive it in the old fashioned way.

 

The alternative: a 2017 Mini convertible. You'll get all the comforts you need.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please familiarise yourself with our Terms and Conditions. By using this site, you agree to the following: Terms of Use.