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Mystery Churchill tool - front spring compressor for Triumph?


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Hi

I have recently acquired a Churchill tool, hoping it was a Jaguar XJ6 front spring compressor. It's a very similar size and shape, but there are a few differences. I have noticed that it looks suspiciously identical to the replica Triumph spring compressor that Moss sell - so I think I have ended up with an original version of one of these by mistake. I may try and use it on the Jag anyway, since it looks like it will fit fine if I get a couple of the extra Jaguar adaptors made up by my local fabricator.

 

Can anyone who owns one of their own help me with the part number stamped on it, so I can confirm this? Mine is S 143 A.

It has the threaded rod with locknuts and a washer, the mushroom thingie with the bearing inside it, and the huge Churchill wingnut/spinner, and a metal plate (S 143 A/1) that I'm assuming goes in between the mushroom and the spring pan.

 

Also, I'm working on the assumption that the ultimate tensile strength of my (?Triumph) Churchill spring compressor threaded rod is the same as the one that Churchill sold for the XJ's. The diameter of the rod is the same - I checked it against one at my nearest Jaguar Independent.

Any thoughts on this assumption? The Jaguar front spring is ginormous, and if I'm wrong, it will (a) strip the threads on the rod, ruining the tool and (B) dismember me in the process.

 

Many thanks for your collective thoughts and wisdom

 

Niel

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Mine, purchased by me at least 45 years ago from either Dove (Wimbledon) or Lankester (Kingston-on-Thames) has the very large, long-handled, cast, wing nut, and embossed on the casting are the letters VLC, below which, in small font, it seems to have CTN21 - cannot be sure of that as the casting is fairly rough and the letters not very clear. I purchased it as the Churchill tool for the TR's front suspension, and I can vouch that it does the business!

Ian Cornish

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  • 3 years later...

Hello again everyone

So - to revive the now 3 year old thread - I never used the spring compressor in the end, I hired a Jaguar one from the JEC. I’m having a clear out of the garage.

I thought I’d give you guys first refusal before I put it on the bay. Is anyone interested? Let me know if you are. Pictures on request no problem obviously. Moss sell theirs for £169. Mine’s in unusually good nick for an old Churchill tool (and I have seen many!), threads spinning freely, bearing greased and good, pretty much zero surface rust.

Best wishes to all in these strange times and hoping you are all well

Niel 

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Just in - one of the forum members says he is “fairly sure” it’s not a Triumph spring compressor.

By all means make me an offer anyway, but please, caveat emptor. This is sold as is, honest description, up to the buyer to decide what it’s for. Personally, I cannot vouch for it either way! I suggest looking at the part numbers etc carefully before making an offer.

Kind regards

Niel

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Hi Niel,

on the last photo, the black item in the middle,

could you please measure the diameter in the round part (90 mm?) and how wide it is in the parallel part?

And what is the diameter of the ball item on the left, please (less than 80 mm?).

The usable spindle length is more than 55 cm?

Ciao, Marco

 

 

 

Edited by Z320
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I see that I posted here some details of my Churchill tool on 14th March 2017.

I have taken a few photos this morning and both Maddy and I have tried to decipher the number cast into the handle (STN 2*21, probably) and the writing on the other side -  possibly

R1965 then 1696013 (the 6 in 6013 might be a C or a G).

1965 would be about the time that I purchased the tool to use on my TR2.

The large black lump is 2 11/16" (6.9cm) in diameter.  Overall length is about 24" (61cm)

My brother, a Mechanical Engineer, later produced his own home-made version to use on his TR3, and, when he got rid of the car, I kept that as well.

(Sorry about the shoes, sergeant major, not polished this morning!).

Ian Cornish

 

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Edited by ianc
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Hi everyone

Photos with measurements to follow.

Interestingly, as far as I can tell, the tool is identical to Ian Cornish’s 1965 purchase.

I can’t explain the part numbers difference. That said, I know from personal experience the throughout Jaguar’s run, their part numbers changer several times. Sometimes this reflected a modification to the tool, and sometimes the tools were identical. Sometimes the part number change was only a different suffixed letter, and sometimes it was a totally different nomenclature. I have worked around this by eventually tracking down 3 paper catalogues each from the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s, which builds up a pretty clear picture but still leaves me with the occasional anomaly.

Anyway, here they come.

Kind regards to all

Niel

 

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B2C1732F-298B-4DB6-A76E-89968425F413.jpeg

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Hello again everyone

Many thanks to everyone for their interest in the tool, and also those that have helped us get to the bottom of it's identity - it's been invaluable and I'm very grateful for everyone's time and effort. And special thanks to Ian Cornish, without whom we'd still be more or less in the dark.

Most of the messages I've had about buying the tool have asked me what I want for it (and the two offers I've had have been rather on the thrifty side - not that there's anything wrong with that - I'm sure I would do the same guys!).

So - just to clarify from my side -

I don't have a particular figure in mind. This isn't because I mean to be cagey or coy about it, it's just because I have no idea what these are worth to Triumph owners. I know the value of the Jag front spring compressor pretty much to the penny (they come up one at a time, several years apart, on Ebay, and are fearsomely expensive because of this, and the fact that the only workaround, using four threaded rods from the spring pan and a jack, is rather slow work, and doesn't feel as safe), as well as the remaining Churchill tools I'm still on the lookout for for my car, and I know how often (or not) they come up for sale, as well as how much I would or wouldn't pay for them.

But the Triumph stuff - not a clue. I don't know if you can pick these up at any Triumph spares day for a tenner, or if they are rare as hen's teeth, or somewhere in between, so I have no way of putting a particular price on it. Old Churchill tools are worth whatever anyone is prepared to pay for them at any one time, and that the figure will be different each time.

So please please please, in the nicest possible way - no more requests for my price. I don't have one. I know that the concept of closed bidding can be a bit disconcerting in some ways, but please, just make me an offer based on what it's worth to you if you want it, and if not, fair do's and happy days!

Kind regards and once again, many many thanks for all your help and interest

Niel

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Hi Niel,

sorry me, I don't want to buy this tool because I make them myself, I just want you to help you to find out what car its made for.

I only own a TR4A so I can only tell you about other models what I've been told during the last 7 years.

I'm pretty shure the ball end fits TR2-TR6, the threaded bar also if the 19 mm on end are reduced to 1/2", if it is bigger than 1/2" it will not fit TR2-4, only 4A-6.

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If the diameter of the other black item is about 90 mm I'm pretty shure the is the adaptor to use the tool on Jaguar MK2 and E-Type, maybe other calssic

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Because their spring pan looks like this, the bolts go out when you slacken the nuts (I've been told), the rear side should fit in perfect

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I made a small number of my tool for this models. On one of you photos the parts are in the wrong way.

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If the black part is diameter 90 mm I suggest: sell the complete tool to a Jaguar owner, they need it and give you good money for it,

more then you ever will get for the hole tool from a TR owner, because for TR owners the part is for the bin.

Ciao, Marco

 

Edited by Z320
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The parts as shown in my photo are in the correct order for use of the tool.

I see that Moss sell a tool for about £65 - but it's out of stock!

As Jaguar owners have more money than TR owners, I would advise Niel to sell to a Jag owner!  TR people are quite capable of making a home-made version using a decent length of studding and some nuts from a DIY shop, together with bits of metal lying about the garage.  I never throw away old bits of metal and wood, and am seldom stuck for the odd item (Alex refers to my garage as B&Q).

Ian Cornish

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9 hours ago, nieldavis said:

Hi Marco

Thanks very much for that information - extremely thoughtful of you to go to the trouble, and I will investigate.

Kind regards

Niel

 

Hi Niel, you are welcome.

It seems the photos are no longer needed so I will delete them todays evening.

Is that OK for you?

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On 6/1/2020 at 9:42 PM, CJHore said:

I think its for compressing  rubber suspension cones on early minis

Not. I have one of those and they screw into a captive nut in the rubber suspension unit. Tube and handle look similar though.

Ralph.

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