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Old style oil pump


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Gents,

 

After a little advise re: oil pump

 

I have what looks like the original oil pump that has a square takeup rather than the mesh bulb at the end. Its marked Houbourn Eaton HE10148 (like this one from eBay)

 

s-l1000.jpg

 

Im reluctant to replace as its well within tolerance, and before taking it apart it always had good oil pressure plus the original stuff seems to last better than the new remade units.

 

The issue I face is that it doesnt have a mesh filter.

 

Should i simply make a simple filter out of stainless steel mesh and move on? Should it even have a mesh filter as the one above (apparently NoS) doesnt appear to have one either?

Thanks

Edited by AndrewP
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Andrew,

 

Houlbourn Eaton & Concentric were the OEM suppliers to BL for oil pumps.Clearance between rotors not to be more than .010" and end float can be taken down to 0.0015". Your pump should have a strainer on the bottom of the pick up? Is it laying in the sump? It is a separate part!

 

Bruce.

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Yes the strainer for the sq pick up type pump was a separate item. Pt No 149621 Not available new now in the UK.

The strainer was conical shaped and pushed up inside the pick up tube. Retained by two external clips that clipped onto the two moulded lugs of the pickup. The clips were part of the strainer 'mouth'.

 

Try someone like Chris Witor http://www.chriswitor.com/products.php?cat=356

I can see you are not in Europe but it might turn something up that can be posted.

 

Peter W

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I would think the bases are interchangeable but don't know it for a fact. You should also be able to swap gauzes from old pump to new if the old one is the same style or even make one as Neil says.

 

The big benefit of the "old" style pumps is their cast iron body whose expansion rate is much closer to that of the rotors, so maintaining a much more even end float and minimising slip when the pump is hot. Never seen a 6 pot one in the flesh......

 

Nick

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In actuality, it was advised to operate this early oil pump with the screen off according to the Triumph Technical Service Bulletin 1-A-5 issued July 2, 1969 -

 

It has been established that the metal gauze filter location on the intake of the engine oil pump can under certain running conditions become partially blocked, restricting the oil pressure to such a degree that serious damage can be caused to the engine.

The following serial numbers can be affected:

TR-6 CC26000 to CC31000 GT-6+ KC52000 to KC57500

It is imperative that all TR-6 and GT-6+ vehicles between these serial numbers are called in to your service department to have the oil pump screen removed. A letter has been sent to owners of record, advising them of this required action.

1-a-5.gif

 

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Great bit of info..thanks Case.

 

Love the resolution...Why bother fixing it when you can simpy remove it!

 

Could be why mine and the one on eBay have them removed?

 

its obviously been going for a few years without issue so perhaps best left as it is?

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Just in case anyone is wondering..this is what the elusive filter looks like:

IMG_20170318_164559.jpg

 

IMG_20170318_164553.jpg

 

I`ll be fitting it to mine for peace of mind.

 

I can see how, if maintenance is lax, that this small surface area (especially towards the pointy end) could get clogged and restrict the uptake of oil but it would need to be like black sludge before it managed this.

 

Anyway..thanks for the info and hope it might help someone in the future.

 

Andrew

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Only because if I don't say anything and in two years time you have a thread about an engine rebuild, and I hadn't said anything now I would feel bad,

 

but THAT IS HORRIBLE!

 

forget the pointy end, and the fact the fact that the filter mesh in the main body is going to be close to the inside of the pick up pipe making it way more likely to clog (gloopy bits of oil love sticking to little edges), its the blasted entry hole which at a guess it about 20mm x 10mm (if that) you only need a sticky label or few other bits of gasket material or a bit of paper towel or rag getting into the sump at some point and being picked up and your fooked!

 

The surface area of that opening is approx 200sqmm compare that with the surface area of the normal external gauze filter of say 5400 sqmm and your multiplying your chances of a total blockage by about 25 times.

 

It would be a piece of piss dead easy to make and fit an external gauze filter with a way bigger surface area!

 

Ok said my piece!

 

Alan

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Dear Andrew,

Thanks for the pictures, they tell more than a 1000 words.

I would not run my engine with this filter. Even in unclogged condition it is quitte a restriction. The large surface area gives a false sense of security. In practice, all larger paticles like from gasket, sealer etc. may (will) end up in the upstream part of the filter, restricting flow.

I guess the Triumph technical bulletin was based on several examples of this.

I would modify to the lightbulb design filter or replace the pump, but not run without a filter.

The debris in my sump is why not.

Waldi

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Gents,

 

Thanks for the feedback...valid points raised.

 

Interesting challenge, as I dont think you can use the old style pickup with a bulb as the neck is longer and placing a bulb on the end will ( I think ) hit the bottom of the oil pan and wont fit.

 

Making your own filter is easier said than done.

Ive tried to make a DIY bulb style strainer, and Stainless mesh is a pig to work with.

Ive tried with solder and braze and to get the braze to stick you need to break the surface coating on the SS wires. For this you need to use aggressive fluxes. and due to the wires being thin, getting to the ideal temp to weld/braze the wires tend to glow red hot quickly and bead the braze/solder. Add to this unless I can find a mesh where each square is fused, the mesh ends fall apart (imagine its like a game of kerplunk!) . Even folding/crimping the ends over doesnt install confidence that one of those stray SS wires wont come adrift and end up in the pump.

I noticed on the one I pictured above, the mesh is spot welded/fused onto the frame as I assume this is a known issue with working with stainless mesh.

 

I`ll see if I can source something else (perhaps mild steel) or come up with another option.

 

Plan B is always just to use a new pump of course, but there is always the danger of that being inferior to the old style one?

Edited by AndrewP
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Hi Alam,

 

Thanks for taking the time to post the drawing and explanation.

 

Ive had a search and I see what you mean re: the Chevy V8 strainers (a little box with a bit of gauze crimped over the end).

 

I`ll see if I can make something in perforated mild steel and get the same thing to give some protection from bits going into the pump.

 

Cheers

 

Andrew

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Hi Alam,

 

Thanks for taking the time to post the drawing and explanation.

 

Ive had a search and I see what you mean re: the Chevy V8 strainers (a little box with a bit of gauze crimped over the end).

 

I`ll see if I can make something in perforated mild steel and get the same thing to give some protection from bits going into the pump.

 

Cheers

 

Andrew

Andrew

Stripped a engine down with that pump and filter it had done 110,000 miles and the crank did not even need any work says it all.

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