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TR2 Mille Miglia


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Thank you all for all your advice. I have a couple of good options/suggestions now and will follow up with those. I'll let you know how I get on. Cheers.

I was rather surprised to see that a few posts have suggested that the car being considered at Hofmans is worth around £26k.   As has been suggested the car from the pics looks far from correct in m

all their cars are gone... ? perhaps a site bug ? or powered by Lucas?

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Thanks for all the tips from everyone. I have picked up a lot already from the comments.

 

What do you all think is a good price for a RHD TR2 that is in nice condition but not totally original, like the one in the advert?

From looking at ones for sale currently, they vary wildly from mid 20k to 70k.

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Don't buy a car there.

 

Menno

I now realise that you're in the UK. I had't realised that, I was on my phone reading the thread. Now on my Mac.

 

I have never met a classic car owner who was (is) happy with a car from them. Too expensive for the quality of the car, hidden problems etc. They sell all sorts of classics and on all Dutch forums (like Porsche, Triumph and MG etc) there's a load of people 'not happy' with the car from that garage.

 

An example can be found above: almost instantly, people here on the forum noticed that the car must be a cut and shut job, bodged from various parts of various years. The seller isn't telling you that! Only that it's a 'restored' car!

 

Menno

Edited by Menno van Rij 2
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I think the one in the advert is a very fair price, even considering the crappy exchange rate

So what is going on at the bulkhead to inner front wing joint under the bonnet? I would want o look more closely. I can not see properly from the photo resolution but it looks horribly like a patch repair on the left.

Is this car what the trade describe a 6 footer? Great from 6 feet.

Peter W

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Hi Menno,

 

I think "bodged " may be a bit of a strong representation.

 

There will be quite a few TRs on the road in the UK which will have been on the road the majority of the 50 odd years since they were built. As itemised above at the time "updating" TR2 to 3s by the addition of a different front apron and the TR3 to 3As by another front apron switch, and then the desire to have brakes after doing multiple hard brake stops leads to the addition of discs or even a servo and getting fed up after breaking the 3rd Lockheed halfshaft meant a Girling axle was substituted for longlevity, etc etc etc.

At various times boot floors or inner wings or rear of cockpit floors have been either in short supply or NLA for considerable periods which meant lots of TR owners 30-40 years ago fitted what was to hand and it kept cars away from the scrapyards, any idea of fanciful prices were "pipe dreams" and the idea that Britains favourite sports car models would be worth real money never prevented owners from using a sympathetic "wrong part", as Alec points out...a bitsa.

It may be that a concours judge would mark them harshly now but as long as you buy with knowledge of what isn't period correct is taken into consideration and the price isn't calculated to cheat accordingly then I think your point regarding garages (and possibly this one) is well made and customers can provide very important feedback.

 

My own feedback would be that the perspective presenting from the rear on the right hand side (RHD drivers side) and even from the front on that side it the car appears to stand strangely. At first I thought it was the photograph possibly being off set slightly when taken but having considered it I don't think that is the case and I wouldn't be buying that car until I had inspected it and satisfied myself that all was well.

 

Mick Richards

Edited by Motorsport Mickey
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So what is going on at the bulkhead to inner front wing joint under the bonnet? I would want o look more closely. I can not see properly from the photo resolution but it looks horribly like a patch repair on the left.

Is this car what the trade describe a 6 footer? Great from 6 feet.

Peter W

 

I think you're being a little harsh on the car. It is after all, only £27k (ish) given the exchange rate for what looks to be a tidy TR2. I've seen a lot worse on the market for more money (just taking pics on the internet into account).

 

I considered selling my 3a a couple of years ago prior to Stuart restoring it. I was asking £15k and the trader that turned up moaned that it was LHD and didn't have overdrive (something he was already aware of). My answer was that if it had those things I'd be asking a lot more money than £15k. He couldn't argue with that really.

 

I'm sure if this was an immaculately restored, original spec TR2 it would be £40k, not £27k.

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I think you're being a little harsh on the car. It is after all, only £27k (ish) given the exchange rate for what looks to be a tidy TR2. I've seen a lot worse on the market for more money (just taking pics on the internet into account).

 

I considered selling my 3a a couple of years ago prior to Stuart restoring it. I was asking £15k and the trader that turned up moaned that it was LHD and didn't have overdrive (something he was already aware of). My answer was that if it had those things I'd be asking a lot more money than £15k. He couldn't argue with that really.

 

I'm sure if this was an immaculately restored, original spec TR2 it would be £40k, not £27k.

I am clearly missing the issue of how much our cars are worth these days. Thanks for the pointer on values, I am horribly out of touch. I still think McMuttleys TR3A is a great possibility. As we forum users know he has many spent hours and much money getting the car just right. It is also a car that is used regularly so you can reliably get in it and go. These 500 mile a year cars are all very pretty but....Think - 'BathTub Curve of Reliability' time against reliabilty

 

Peter W

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To be honest Peter, I thought sidescreen prices were pretty static until I started looking recently. TR4's on the other hand seemed to be moving very quickly to catch up with the sidescreens to the point they seemed to cross over price wise.

 

12 months ago I was seeing good TR3's for between £20 and £25k. Now decent ones seem to be between £25k and £30k - some above this with the "dealer premium".

 

On the basis TR2's carry a premium over a TR3, to my eyes the £27k for this one seemed reasonable, perhaps because it is RHD and over in Holland that isn't seen as the advantage it is here. However, if it has a post 60k body stuck on it, that would certainly affect the price (especially if the engine wasn't original on top of this - it starts to look like a pretty "Bitsa" as Alec etc point out).

 

But for £27k it makes a very pretty car for someone to drive and enjoy the summer in.

 

The only issue I can see with McMuttleys car in terms of the OP is that it isn't Mille Miglia eligible due to its age (if it was, I'd be entering in mine!)

 

Richard

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There's too much difference between the shiny shell and the 'but' and 'if's' here on the forum. That explains why I wouldn't touch that car with a barge pole! Sure, cars have been repaired, restored and overhauled. Add the 'fame' of the seller and...

 

Menno

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I don't think so, there are too many correct items:

Rear lights, front side light type, seats, boot locks, wiper motor position, no raised hinges, wedge fittings on doors.

I did wonder if the headlamps dipped the wrong way?

 

Bob.

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Agree with Menno.

 

When it is a good restoration why are there no pic's from the underside?

 

If you want to buy a car by that kind of company's, you must have a expert (of Triumph TR2) ad your side!

 

 

Krs

Marcel

 

 

Like i said, if needed, i can visit the seller and take some extra pictures.

 

I have looked at the car myself. i dont think its too bad, menno.

 

the seller is no fraud but dont expect fullfledge knowlegde of each car he sells. he has dozens.. the only thing he does is a nice cleanup and warranties 'till you leave the premise.. you will have to accept you have to trust your own knowledge..

 

i bought my gt6 from him in 2000. i paid too much but i was in love and didnt do any research on the web back then (well.. the web was quite small those days..)

 

i think this is overprized if you want to make a concours queen. just drive and enjoy would be better, still a bit overprized but within reason.

 

dont know what happened to the bulkhead though.. it looks like something has been done to the front end after an accident? its a bit of a bodge repair..

 

Im the sidescreen registar of the dutch Club Triumph Holland, but i dont have any listings before i personally added this one, so cant help you with the history of PO's.

 

it was first registered on 1st august 1955, imported to netherlands july 12th 2002 and the last owner bought it 2 march 2016, which will probably be the current seller.

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Edited by EdwinTiben
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The fine detail of this car, and the reputation of the company offering the car, is neither here nor there . . . . .

 

If Tom is looking to enter the Mille Miglia then he is looking at a very expensive exercise . . . . . and at an event which is renowned for the thoroughness of its detail scrutineering, especially for non-Italian entrants.

 

The only sensible way to proceed is surely to purchase a car with a known history and which is indisputably an authentic TR2 - and certainly the idea of starting with a bitsa mongrel and trying to rebuild it to a pukka spec to satisfy MM scrutineering is NOT the way to go . . . .

 

Cheers

 

Alec

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...indisputably an authentic TR2 - and certainly the idea of starting with a bitsa mongrel and trying to rebuild it to a pukka spec to satisfy MM scrutineering is NOT the way to go ...

 

A few extracts from the Mille Miglia 2017 rules and regulations:

 

5.3 ACCEPTED CARS
5.3.1 Competition cars classified in periods C, D, E and whose models were registered for the Mille Miglia speed race (1927 > 1957 will be accepted.
Accepted cars will be divide duo into the following groupings:
- 1st Grouping competition cars belonging to Period C (vehicles built from 1927 to 1930)
- 2nd Grouping competition cars belonging to Period D (vehicles built from 1931 to 1946)
- 3rd Grouping competition cars belonging to Period E (vehicles built from 1947 to 1957)
5.3.2 Cars built after 1957 will not be accepted.
5.3.3 Cars built before 1927, limited to those models which were registered in the Mille Miglia speed race (1927 > 1957), may be accepted.
5.3.4 Up to 450 competition cars will be accepted, of which up to n. 30 belonging to the Special List (see Article 5.3.5 of these SR).
5.3.5 Competition cars, selected by the Organiser, that are of great historical and/or sports interest, and that, in respect of periods indicated above, were not registered in the Mille Miglia speed race (1927 > 1957) may be accepted in the "Special List".
The Operations Committee will establish which cars to accept into the "Special List", with independent and final decisions.
5.3.6 In order to be accepted, all competition cars must have a FIVA International Identity Card and/or FIA Heritage Certificate and/or valid ACI Sport Card and/or FIA HTP.
Competition cars will be registered with Make and Model and year of manufacture referred exclusively to the mentioned documents.
...
8.3 SCRUTINEERING
After having passed all the administrative checks, the crews must submit the cars to scrutineering, in the ways and times stated in the programme. Failure to do so will lead to the cars being excluded from the race. Checks will be as follows.
a) check of the correct positioning of the stickers in compliance with Articles 8.2.1 and 8.2.2 of these SR and check of the sound and light signals suitable for travelling on the road;
b ) check of the following documents, to be presented as originals:
- FIVA International Identity Card and/or FIA Heritage Certificate and/or valid ACI Sport Fiche and/or HTP FIA concerning the competition car;
- check that notified data correspond with registration data (year of manufacture and chassis number);
c) placing of “checked” sticker, which cannot be removed from the competition car on penalty of exclusion, and installation of safety equipment as per article 8.5 of these SR.
Eligible cars HERE.
Edited by Don H.
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i have made a calculation about the entry.. in total you will have to put in about 15.000 euros for the event, preps in documents, screening, hotels, thats even without transport to the location..

 

but about the detailing...

 

this tr2 has entered the miglia a couple of times, but take a look at it closely.. seems like a tr4 engine.. and many more details not correct. and that for a nice price of 124.000 euros!!!!

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=213809602&isSearchRequest=true&damageUnrepaired=NO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&scopeId=C&makeModelVariant1.makeId=24400&makeModelVariant1.modelId=1&pageNumber=2&fnai=next

 

 

i think this one would be a better start AlfaTom. what you see is what you get and you can work from there. will take a lot of time and money.. trust me... i know...

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=237411937&damageUnrepaired=NO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&isSearchRequest=true&scopeId=C&makeModelVariant1.makeId=24400&makeModelVariant1.modelId=1&pageNumber=1

Edited by EdwinTiben
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Both car pointed out by Edwin are close to my house. The expensive one 20mins south and the cheap one 35mins north. I know who sells the expensive car. Europe's (and perhaps World's) largest classic car seller - and one of the owners is a former pupil who attended my lessons.

 

Menno

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Hi Guys

With all these prices being banded about, I wonder what TS11 would fetch if offered? I saw this car two years ago at the Swiss Classic British Car meeting., fully restored and looking superb.

Also while at the MM Museum last year, there was a black TR3 there on show but nobody around to ask if I could see the engine etc..

 

Dave

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