Chris96 Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 I've just fitted Wilwood 4 pot calipers to my "6", together with new ventilated, but not drilled or slotted, discs. These were supplied with Wilwood BP10 pads. The braking is not good from cold, and probably not adequate in the low speed urban traffic that my car has to endure from time to time. I've only done 40-50 miles so far so maybe there will be an improvement once bedded in, but I'm not convinced. I've been recommended to change these for green stuff pads, these being more suited to road use and medium heat. Does anyone have similar experiences, any views or advice? many thanks Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 Hi Chris Greenstuff pads have a mixed reputation, some rate them some hate them. I had them in a previous 6, with standard calipers, and thought they were ok but a bit 'wooden' You'll find a lot of threads on brakes and pads on here somhave a search, im not aware what's available for the wilwood calipers. Personally i like Mintex pads, and the 1144 material is a good compromise for fast road use. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GT6M Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) BP10, no good at all, BP20 next up, then BP30 there loadsa Wilwood pads, but only had the BP10s, as they come wid calipers. Had Greenstuff pads in befoer i got the 4 pots v v dusty, overheated quite fast, they just about same as OE road pad Redstuff is next up, but went 1144 1144 are just better than a good OE standard {asbestos type } butt, ive cooked the 1144s on mine a few times 1155 better still , as next pad up,, never tried em, as got DS2500 on, really really good, bite frae cold, no squeel, and no much dust compared to 1144s you got the differential piston type caliper,!!! http://www.ferodoracing.com/products/car-racing/racing-brake-pads/ds2500/ M Edited January 4, 2017 by GT6M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve T Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 I have Greenstuffs on my tuned Vectra and find them very good. Excellent stopping power with very little fade and very low on brake dust. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GT6M Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 should have said, the green stuffs are no the same as they wer yonks ago they changed the recipe butt, to me, too late!! M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tim hunt Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 Some time ago I upgraded my standard 4A discs from solid to Rossini drilled and grooved and tried Green Stuff pads. Whilst these were an improvement over standard pads I was never really satisfied with the bite and they could be provoked into fading after repeated hard use. I next tried Mintex 1144 and found these an improvement over the Green Stuff in terms of initial bite and fade resistance. However, I could never eliminate a squeal that occurred when braking gently and this was really getting on my nerves. I then tried a set of Ferodo DS Performance pads, part no FER167 obtained from Burton Power. It was just necessary carefully to enlarge the guide pin holes to suit the earlier imperial pins of the Girling 16P callipers on my car. Immediately after fitting the pads I found a quiet, straight stretch of road and bedded them in exactly as recommended. After the first few applications I could already appreciate more initial bite from cold and improved stopping power and the squealing disappeared. In September 2011 I took part in Club Triumph’s fifth Ten Countries Run round Europe. We traversed twenty Alpine passes including the St. Gotthard, St Bernadino and Stelvio and despite hard use we experienced no fade, the pads always inspiring confidence. At one stage I tried a test application on a deserted German autobahn in pouring rain and once again the bite was instantaneous and the retardation progressive. I am a convert, the pads are still on the car after 20K+ miles and have meat left, they are also kind to the discs. Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sapphire72 Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) Chris, before you despair with your new brakes, give them a chance to break in. A Mercedes-Benz tech said this was how to seat new pads: On an isolated road try 10 near stops from around 60 mph, braking very hard down to about 20 mph. Then, evaluate what you need to do, if anything. Edited January 4, 2017 by Sapphire72 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tim hunt Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 That bedding procedure is more or less what Ferodo recommended for the DS Performance pads. Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tim hunt Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 Sorry, should have added that after following this process you should drive on for a while to allow the discs and pads to cool before coming to a complete stop with the pads in contact with particular parts on the discs, otherwise there is a risk of warpage. Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TriumphV8 Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 First step is to check what is offered for the Willwoods. The offered pads will very limited compared to original TR6 what uses similar pads like some FORD. That is why I used the stock calipers with spacers and vented discs form the Willwood set. It is similar to the EBC set but uses bigger discs. Looks like this: So I am free to use any of the discussed pads. One pad and what I think one of the best is missing and that is the yellow stuff. When cold it is still acceptable and offers a wider range when hot. They are not cheap but that extra safety is worth the money for me. Not absolutely necessary for the vented disc because this brake is not that much at the limit like the original solid disc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) In all the above, no discussion of why manufacturers offer different types of brake material. It's heat, and temperature. Brakes transform kinetic energy into heat energy, and get hot in doing so. The more you use the brakes, the hotter they get. Brake materials are designed to work in a certain heat range, and do not function well outside that range. So race materials don't stop well straight out of the garage, and production brakes will soon fade if you drive it like you stole it. Most manufacturers offer three or four types, that operate best in low, middle and high temperature ranges. EG the 'Stuff' product, Green, Red, Yellow and Blue Mintex 1144, 1155, 1166 and 1177 Wilwood C, B, A, H (plus BP40, BP10, CM, Purple etc.etc). I note that our OP was issued with BP10 pads, decsribed by Wilwood as "Medium friction, smooth engagement, low abrasion on iron rotors. Flat torque curve. Low to medium wear rate, increases as temperature increases. Street Use OK" but then under "Applications" as being suitable for, "High performance street / strip, drag race, and track day"!! http://www.wilwood.com/BrakePads/BrakePadsApp.aspx Chris, brake material should be matched to the owner's driving style. You don't need a different brand of brake material, but one that better matches your style, which is one that operates in a lower temperature range, in particular that works better when cold. I'd go back to Wilwood, or wherever you got yours, and discuss it with them on those terms. Finally, brake bedding-in is neither a gradual process that should occur over many miles, nor conforming the pads to previously worn discs. It is to heat cycle the pads to ensure that they have completely and evenly reached the maximum temperature they will achieve in use. 10 sudden stops from 60-zero risks uneven heating. Wilwood themselves offer this process, as do other brake pad manufacturers: "Once the brake system has been tested and determined safe to operate the vehicle, follow these steps for the bedding of all new pad materials . These procedures should only be performed on a race track, or other safe location where you can safely and legally obtains speeds up to 65 MPH, while also being able to rapidly decelerate. Begin with a series of light decelerations to gradually build some heat in the brakes. Use an on-and-off the pedal technique by applying the brakes for 3-5 seconds, and then allow them to fully release for a period roughly twice as long as the deceleration cycle. If you use a 5 count during the deceleration interval, use a 10 count during the release to allow the heat to sink into the pads & rotors. After several cycles of light stops to begin warming the brakes, proceed with a series of medium to firm deceleration stops to continue raising the temperature level in the brakes. Finish the bedding cycle with a series of 8-10 hard decelerations from 55-65 MPH down to 25 MPH while allowing a proportionate release and heat-sinking interval between each stop. The pads should now be providing positive and consistent response. If any amount of brake fade is observed during the bed-in cycle, immediately begin the cool down cycle. Drive at a moderate cruising speed, with the least amount of brake contact possible, until most of the heat has dissipated from the brakes. Avoid sitting stopped with the brake pedal depressed to hold the car in place during this time. Park the vehicle and allow the brakes to cool to ambient air temperature." John Edited January 5, 2017 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 I recently installed EBC Greenstuff to my standard calipers. The pads came with a set of stick-on anti squeel pads, supplied separate in the box (not attached to the brake pads). I called EBC-UK, and asked if the original SS shims should also be used. EBC told me to only use their stick-on pads, and no longer install the SS shims. When I installed the brake pads, they had a very tight fit and were not able to slide freely through the calipers. The new EBC pads measured 0.3 mm wider than my old pads. On closer examination, there was still some rust/scale on the counterfaces in the caliper, despite the fact I gritblasted them (but did not want to hit that area too hard), so I removed that With a fine file, without removing parent metal and now they slide ok. I can image a sticking brakepad can squell too, regardsless of the make/type. I have no driving experience yet, as I'm in still restauring the car, but thought this would be helpfull to others. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sapphire72 Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Rub some brake grease along the sliding pin surface so the pads are free to move. The steel pins tend to corrode & the pads can get hung-up in the on-position, if not lubed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaveR Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) Used EBC Green pads on the Vitesse, the brakes are standard in so much as they use 16P calipers and no servo. I wanted to improve response i.e less pedal pressure. This they appear to do. Standard pads are the same as the TR6 and early GT6. On the TR7's I have upgraded the brakes to vented discs, no holes, using the 16P metric calipers. I have tried Green pads and there is not much difference between them and the standard pads. The standard pads are the as late GT6 or Ford Capra 2.8L In both cases there was more dust when using the Green pads. It probably all comes down to one's driving style. Dave Edited January 5, 2017 by DaveR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Jones Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Few more miles and some breaking-in might improve matters. Alternative materials may come down to what you can actually get to fit these calipers. My personal favourite for normal to spirited road use is Mintex 1144, which has very good bite even when stone cold. Though I have managed to fade them (pad fade not fluid fade), this involved some pretty extreme use in big mountains and was on a Vitesse which uses the same calipers as (std) TR6 but with smaller discs. With your bigger and now vented discs I'd think you'd be fine for road use and track days. My experience with Greenstuff was poor - no better braking than the "greased weetabix" generic motor-factor pads that were already in there and much dustier. As mentioned above, Ferodo DS2500 is also a pretty damn fine general purpose compound, if a bit dear. Cold bite is nearly as good as the 1144 and we haven't managed to fade them, not even on a flying lap of the Nordschleife, which was enough to turn the discs blue...... They last well too. Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 I agree with GT6M on this. Can't understand why anyone would go for Greenstuff pads. Assuming you can get them for your calipers, Mintex1144 are good with excellent bite from cold. Hawke have slightly less bite but resist fade better and more expensive. Have rUn both on mine and genuinely uncertain as to which I prefer for road use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike3739 Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 I've just fitted Wilwood 4 pot calipers to my "6", together with new ventilated, but not drilled or slotted, discs. These were supplied with Wilwood BP10 pads. The braking is not good from cold, and probably not adequate in the low speed urban traffic that my car has to endure from time to time. I've only done 40-50 miles so far so maybe there will be an improvement once bedded in, but I'm not convinced. I've been recommended to change these for green stuff pads, these being more suited to road use and medium heat. Does anyone have similar experiences, any views or advice? many thanks Chris Hi Chris I have the very same set up as you & have had them for five years or so, always found the pads ok they might need to bed in. Cheers Mike. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jerrytr5 Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Hawk HPS are what you want if you can get them to fit your Wilwoods. Work from cold on a Sunday drive and will deal with a track day or the 'Ring. None of the others will do that. Jerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 +1 for Hawk. I won't go near EBC with someone else's barge pole. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 +1 for Hawk. I won't go near EBC with someone else's barge pole. +2 and as good if not better than four pots. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris96 Posted January 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Many thanks to all who replied. You've given me much to think about. I'm sure I will get it sorted. Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris96 Posted January 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 Many thanks to all the brake pad advice received. I have finally gone with Ferodo DS 2500 but have yet to drive the car so have my fingers crossed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 Chris, You have not mentioned the rear brakes. You have improved the fronts but what have you done to the rears? Have you taken the car to a MoT station who will test the brake efficiency if you ask, (probably for free if yous ask nicely) you will then have some numbers to deal with. If you then switch pads a re-test of brakes will give you an impartial assessment of the change. Once you improve the front brakes the rears will need attention, possibly you might consider fitting larger rear slave cylinders. But certainly a strip and lubricate of the rear slave sliding in the backplate would not go amiss.. Also get the rear wheels in the air and make sure there is no binding as the wheels rotate, tighten the rear brakes one notch at a time and ensure that the brakes start to grip al the way around at the same time and there is no eccentricity. Although the front brakes take the brunt of the braking the rears do have their contribution to make. Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel C Posted December 6, 2019 Report Share Posted December 6, 2019 Just a follow up on the Mintex ideas on this thread, any advice on where to get them from....cheap of course! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 6, 2019 Report Share Posted December 6, 2019 Hi Nigel, TR Revington do them as do Burton Engineering (https://www.burtonpower.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?p=3&q=Mintex+1144) Burton's are slightly cheaper Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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