Richard Young Posted December 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 (edited) Opened a can of worms here......Rimmers are concerned about the issue,They rang me today to clarify everything on what I was experiencing.They say they have sold 1000s of these standard shocks and had no problems reported.Now, Interestingly enough he says he measured a Koni,Spax and Gaz and they were all just over an inch shorter when fully extended than their standard ones, which would definately solve the issue.I'm not sure why they havn't had more reports concerning the standard ones,unless they have just recently changed supplier and current batch are not manufactured to correct specs.I have contacted another couple of suppliers who kindly measured them and they were all same length as the Rimmers.So looks like I can not find any new standard shockers anywhere that extend to the correct length thus eliminating my issue.Yes will have to go for Koni or Gaz.I can not fit these Rimmers standard shocks and forget about it because ......a)...might be a safety issue if the spring pan clouts the trunnion on full extension and the mot guy would not be able to swivel the suspension when going through his checks so a potential MOT failure. Will keep all updated with developments. Richard. Edited December 15, 2016 by Richard Young Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Hi Richard, that is alarmingly interesting. So the basic standard damper extends too long compared to the better quality (Koni, Spax) struts. Hmm What happens next.!! Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Young Posted December 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 (edited) Seems so Roger..confirmed by Carl at Rimmers..He measured their standard ones and he actually said GAZ/SPAX/KONI were over an inch shorter same dimension as my originals. (all measured fully extended) Edited December 15, 2016 by Richard Young Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 It is simple be it Rimmers,Tr shop whoever, they are not fit for purpose all cost and more should be payable by them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Young Posted December 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Agreed Neil...Rimmers have gone away to investigate further..will hang fire for now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Hi Richard, PM sent. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Young Posted December 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Latest update...Rimmers. Just had this email from them............ "Hi Richard We have taken the time to inspect the car in our showroom. We have found that our car has exactly the same issue but does not effect the operation of the steering. For this reason it is the decision of our purchase department to pursue this matter no further." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Hi Richard, under normal conditions the trunnion will not be fouling the pan so the steering will be uneffected. However the annual MOT test may raise an issue. Would repeated banging of the pan onto the trunnion have any serious affect.!!!! I can't see it ultimately sheering the pivot bolt because of the spongy bushes but that would be eye watering if it did. It is usually marketing over ruling the quality Dept that gets the day. I see we are now using purchasing to rule the roost. I'm sure most garages that fit these simply expect them to fit and do not do extensive tests to ensure it is OK - the future is looking rosy. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 To me that is a disappointing response from Rimmers. I have no final answer from TR Shop yet, who supplied mine, but definitely will not install them, the forces on the trunnion and vertical link are very high due to the wedge-effect, and also the Dutch MOT-equivalent will not accept a heavy point in the steering, with or without wheels hanging in free air, so the shocks are not fit for purpose. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Young Posted December 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Disappointing sure..I'm re grouping now....sleep on it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 They both will try to get round it,you must have everything else right , get it to mot and see what happens then they have no chance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Hi Richard, under normal conditions the trunnion will not be fouling the pan so the steering will be uneffected. However the annual MOT test may raise an issue. Would repeated banging of the pan onto the trunnion have any serious affect.!!!! I can't see it ultimately sheering the pivot bolt because of the spongy bushes but that would be eye watering if it did. It is usually marketing over ruling the quality Dept that gets the day. I see we are now using purchasing to rule the roost. I'm sure most garages that fit these simply expect them to fit and do not do extensive tests to ensure it is OK - the future is looking rosy. Roger Roger, I'm also concerned that repeated banging of the upper w/b on the chassis might lead to that unusual chassis cracking. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Young Posted December 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 (edited) Not fitting these standard shocks....they're going back... Will go for Gaz or Koni. I'm not pursuing this any further. Just hope people out there will now be aware that the standard shocks available today are not to spec and may cause issues in some cases, as I have found. Richard. Edited December 16, 2016 by Richard Young Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 Not fitting these standard shocks....they're going back... Will go for Gaz or Koni. I'm not persueing this any further. Just hope people out there will now be aware that the standard shocks available today are not to spec and may cause issues in some cases, as I have found. Richard. Richard, I hope you'll confirm that the alternative shocks do actually limit the droop and trunnion/pan fouling. It will be good for others to know for certain. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 Hi Richard, before you shut down completely would you mind filling out a PQI form. We can then speak to Rimmers on a more formal basis which they are happy with. Perhaps we may be able to put over more info, or maybe not. Thank you for posting the original concern and pushing as far as you have got. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 Hi Waldi/Richard, see attachment for PQI link http://www.tr-register.co.uk/pqi Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Young Posted December 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 Thanks Roger...will do PQI and Peter,I will receive the GAZ shocks in the morning and fit them...will let you know result...during tomorrow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
charlie74 Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 Does anyone know how much the stock shock absorber should extend when new? I just got some from Moss and they seem to extend more than the ones I removed but they are quite old... Thanks in advance! C74 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 (edited) Seems so Roger..confirmed by Carl at Rimmers..He measured their standard ones and he actually said GAZ/SPAX/KONI were over an inch shorter same dimension as my originals. (all measured fully extended)Hi Richard Do you have the measurements that they should be, I replaced mine a while ago so have nothing to measure against. Also have a very Happy Birthday :-) Edited December 17, 2016 by Kevo_6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 (edited) Hi Kev, I measured my old shocks, they are not original, but aftermarket Monroe. When fully "out", they measured 300 mm from the center of the bottom bolt hole to the face where the 2 rubbers mate on the top, so this is the effective total lenght, not the overall length. The items supplied to me recently were some 30 mm longer, so 330 mm. Regards, Waldi Edited December 17, 2016 by Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Young Posted December 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 Hi Kev thanks for birthday wishes.... Waldi is correct.... The new standard shockers when fully extended are 330mm thereabouts from centre of bottom bolt hole to middle of the two top rubbers, My original shockers (1972 vintage) measure 300mm. I'm getting pair of GAZ today which Rimmers have measured at 300mm,so I will fit them and hopefully my troubles will be over. Regards Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 Congratulations Kev (how could I forget?) I just submitted a PQI, and ordered new Koni classics in Germany (better price). I will send the too long shocks back to TR Shop and get a refund. Regards, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 Thanks for the measurements guys, very helpful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Young Posted December 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 (edited) The Final Conclusion...... Ok,just fitted GAZ shocks received from Rimmers this morning. Before I fitted one I took the extended measurement and it measured exactly 25mm shorter than the new standard shock. Anyway we have a result!!! With suspension hanging,the trunnion does not touch the springpan and not affecting the downward hang of the suspension and I can swivel the stub axle lock to lock with no problem. Incidently the reason why the swivel of the stub axle was stuck was because of the top ball joint.I will explain... As I have already described from the onset,with the suspension hanging 2 things were occuring,the trunnion was acting as a stop and governing the droop of the suspension and also I could not turn the stub axle laterally,it was solid. The reason for this was that the increased angle of the ball joint to the vertical link (because of the extra drop), was sending the ball shaft (the bit with the nut) outside its working parameters and was right up against the side of its housing thus creating a situation where the ball joint and vertical link became as one..and end result a stuck stub axle. I'm no mechanical engineer so forgive me if all this could have been described with fewer words! Just hope you are with it so far! I proved this to myself earlier today, with the standard shock installed,I removed one of the 2 bolts that attached the ball joint to the top wishbone arms and gently loosened the remaining one and the ball joint immediately assumed a friendlier angle with the vertical link and voila I could move the stub axle with no problem. So friends, at the end of the day my problems were definately caused by my new standard shocks being too flippin' long, not to the correct original spec and not fit for purpose......at least not in my case. Incidently,if anyone wants to check their 'droop' to see if they might have an issue, I would make sure the car is jacked up on 'BOTH' sides so that the anti roll bar assumes an 'at rest position' otherwise with just one side jacked up the ARB will create an upward force on the hung side and create a false diagnosis...thought about this at 5am this morning! Hey... on to new pastures me thinks....the rear suspension. OMG!! Richard. Edited December 18, 2016 by Richard Young Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 Nice one result. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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