Gearbox removal advice.

[TR674]

As many of you have done this before I would like to ask for some advice please.

I need to replace my clutch and was considering removing the gearbox myself. Once the interior is stripped back, is removing the actual gearbox straight forward? How heavy is it? Any tricks/hazards to look out for?

I am then thinking of giving the gearbox to the mechanic to change out clutch, then install gearbox myself.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Regards

Craig

[Steve P]

Good morning Craig,

I recently had my gearbox out but I removed the engine at the same time so I'm not sure about doing the gearbox on its own. But I can say that if you are a good enough mechanic to get the gearbox out then you can change the clutch yourself. It very easy.

 

Steve

[TR674]

Thanks Steve. The clutch is only 3 years old (approx 10,000km) so I want the clutch replace free of charge, but I don't want to burden the mechanic with labour costs of removing/installing the gearbox.

I am reasonably competent on the tools, just never tackled a gearbox before (the Dark Arts).

[15eren]

Hello Craig

It is no problem to take out the gearbox from inside the car. You just need to make an arrangement to keep the engine in place. I use a 2x4 across the engine compartment with a hook in the eye on the engine and a long bolt to ajust the height of the engine .

But the clutch is not on the gearbox. Only the throw-out bearing. The rest of the clutch is bolted to the flywheel on the engine. So You need to change the clutch at home. It is straight forward. Just need to center the clutch and You must not forget the 2 dowels, that makes sure that the gearbox is mounted correct to the engine.

Cheers

Tage

Edited October 21, 2016 by 15eren

[RogerH]

Hi Craig,

you need to remove the GB to replace the clutch!. After so few miles what is wrong with the clutch.?

Do you really need to remove the GB?

 

On my 4A - similar in many ways - I place a crocodile jack under the engine. This allows it to be raised/lowered

I place an electric scissor jack under the GB (on the drain plug) - this allows it to be raised/lowered - to help align the GB/Engine on assembly.

 

You will need to drop the propshaft away from the back of the GB.

If you do not remove the propshaft then you will need to drop the exhaust pipe (depending on type) to allow the propshaft to make room.

Remove both seats. Remove the righthand side seat slide and carpets.

Pull the GB rewards and waggle onto the righthand side.

 

Al the clutch stuff is attached to the back of the engine.

 

Roger

[TR674]

Thanks gents.

Roger, mechanic suspects diaphragm is broken. Some bizarre behaviour from clutch from severe judder to erratic clutch travel/takeup (cannot select 1st at times).

It's not right anyway and needs to be looked at.

[Austin Branson]

Hello Craig, I agree pretty much with all the previous comments, except Roger's (sorry, Roger!) - in my experience the box needs to come out on the left hand side floor (put old carpet on the floor to prevent scratching/damage). At the age of 23 I got the bo out of my TR4 without too much trouble, by the time I reached 68 these gearboxes have gained a LOT of weight! Anyway, reason for left hand side is to help it go back - you will need to rotate the box to about 9 or 10 o'clock to introduce ut back into the void in order for the 'lump' that accommodates the starter dog in the bell housing to clear the left hand floor. Just seemed a bit easier to me. Get someone to give you a hand. It's heavy - especially with an overdrive. Good luck. Austin

[peejay4A]

I'm confused - not unusual, but the starter is on the right hand side of the engine/box using the usual left/right convention. I took mine out of the right hand, driver's, door.

[Bill Bourne]

Hi Craig

 

From recent memory - so I might miss something, step by step

 

1) remove both seats

2) remove the kidney side panels form the H frame if you have them

2) remove your radio in the H frame if you have one - mark the wires

3) remove the gear lever knob

4) remove the H frame

5) disconnect the overdrive and reverse wires going through the gearbox cover/carpet - mark

6) remove all the carpets and gearbox cover

7) jack the car up and put on axle stands, front and rear

8) place a jack under the rear of the engine,use a block of wood and place it at the end/edge of the engine where it meets the bell housing. Lift a little to take the weight

9) place another jack under the centre of the gearbox - lift a little just to take the weight

10) undo the prop shaft from the end of the gearbox - you may have to disconnect your exhaust to allow the prop shaft to be slid back/drop down out of the way

11) remove the starter motor - make a note of which way the bolts are fixed.

12) disconnect the speedo cable

13) disconnect the clutch slave cylinder bracket - hang with wire

14) remove all the bell housing bolts - make a note of which way they come out and especially note where the guide bolts are - there are 2 - from memory 2 o'clock and 7 o'clock - help.. can't remember exactly - but they are slightly thicker than all the others.

15) the gearbox should now be free. - place some cardboard on your floor pans - then wiggle the gearbox free. get some help. it weighs around 100 kgs and pull away onto the floor pan. Left or right. I don't think it matters

16) then you should have access to the clutch cover etc.

 

On re-assembly, use a clutch alignment tool and after re-attaching the gearbox to the engine - don't tighten too much, just pinch all the bolts. then run the engine for a bit, for it all to settle. then tighten up and complete the re-assembly.

 

I'm sure I might have missed something, but the expertise on here will probably point that out or add some more useful info.

 

Good luck

best Bill

[RogerH]

Thanks gents.

Roger, mechanic suspects diaphragm is broken. Some bizarre behaviour from clutch from severe judder to erratic clutch travel/takeup (cannot select 1st at times).

It's not right anyway and needs to be looked at.

Hi Craig,

When you remove the box try and find the two dowel/bolts that align the box with the back of the engine.

If it is incorrectly aligned you will get clutch pedal judder and probably other things.

With the GB out try and measure to see of the GB input splined shaft is concentric with the bearing carrier snout, My 4A was 0.020" vertically adrift and I believe this was causing my clutch pedal judder.

 

being right handed I find removing the box to the right and then exiting out of the right hand side door is easier for me.

 

Roger

[TR674]

Thank Bill, and all others, some useful info. Now I'll just limber up......

[Sapphire72]

Nice write up, Bill.

[Bill Bourne]

Oh - perhaps another useful tip. When re-fitting the gearbox cover. I suspect you will need a new seal. This depends on what type of cover you have, but in the case of the rubber/plastic cover like I have. Rather than struggle trying to find those awful spire clips on the front top flange and on the circular sides. I took the opportunity to fit castle bolts, and fit the bolts upward so that you can simply put the cover back in the right location over the bolt end.Then use neoprene bonded washers for sealing and the put the nuts on top. You might need to modify the seal a bit, but it works a treat. OK the carpet might not sit flat in that area, but you will never see it. So, so much easier. You can also use that method on the sides as well. but only the front ones otherwise they will show the further back you use them and the carpet won't sit flat. If you can't get castle bolts, then use a normal bolt - secure with a nut underneath to hold it in place.

 

best Bill

[Dave McDonald]

Hi Craig

 

From recent memory - so I might miss something, step by step

 

1) remove both seats

2) remove the kidney side panels form the H frame if you have them

2) remove your radio in the H frame if you have one - mark the wires

3) remove the gear lever knob

4) remove the H frame

5) disconnect the overdrive and reverse wires going through the gearbox cover/carpet - mark

6) remove all the carpets and gearbox cover

7) jack the car up and put on axle stands, front and rear

8) place a jack under the rear of the engine,use a block of wood and place it at the end/edge of the engine where it meets the bell housing. Lift a little to take the weight

9) place another jack under the centre of the gearbox - lift a little just to take the weight

10) undo the prop shaft from the end of the gearbox - you may have to disconnect your exhaust to allow the prop shaft to be slid back/drop down out of the way

11) remove the starter motor - make a note of which way the bolts are fixed.

12) disconnect the speedo cable

13) disconnect the clutch slave cylinder bracket - hang with wire

14) remove all the bell housing bolts - make a note of which way they come out and especially note where the guide bolts are - there are 2 - from memory 2 o'clock and 7 o'clock - help.. can't remember exactly - but they are slightly thicker than all the others.

15) the gearbox should now be free. - place some cardboard on your floor pans - then wiggle the gearbox free. get some help. it weighs around 100 kgs and pull away onto the floor pan. Left or right. I don't think it matters

16) then you should have access to the clutch cover etc.

 

On re-assembly, use a clutch alignment tool and after re-attaching the gearbox to the engine - don't tighten too much, just pinch all the bolts. then run the engine for a bit, for it all to settle. then tighten up and complete the re-assembly.

 

I'm sure I might have missed something, but the expertise on here will probably point that out or add some more useful info.

 

Good luck

best Bill

Craig

Bill Bourne's list is a well written schedule of the various steps to which I would just add the following comments, to using his numbering system, having just removed and replaced my non overdrive box a week ago.

 

(7) It is easier to remove the gearbox cover if you remove the gear lever first.

(8) Rather than place the block of wood under the back plate/bellhousing, where it will impede removal of the bottom bolts, put it under the back of the sump. Before jacking up the unit, undo the rear gearbox mount complete with its cross bridge support and then when you've jacked up the engine it should come out downwards on the left side. When jacking the engine up don't take it too far up, in order to make sure you can still get at the top 3 nuts on the studs which are captive in the back of the block and still allow the gearbox to clear the bulkhead to remove it.

(9)Rather than put a 2nd jack under the gearbox I put a steel bar under the box to support it, resting on the floor at each side of the gearbox.

(10) The standard prop shaft has a very short slide back length on the splines leaving very little room to draw the gearbox back far enough for the input shaft nose to clear the flywheel. Whilst you might get it out with the prop shaft in place the tendency for the shafts' front drive flange to flop over can cause problems when you are trying to manoeuvre the gearbox back into line to reinstall it, particularly if it's a heavy overdrive box. May be better to remove the prop shaft completely.

(14) The 2 dowel bolts are 3/8" unf at approx. 2 o'clock and 8 o'clock and important to locate the box.. All the rest are 5/16" unf.

(15) I managed a non overdrive unit myself with difficulty but definitely need 2 for an O/D unit, one in car with one underneath to take some weight, another reason for not wanting the 2nd jack under there. For me it's always best to remove to left for no better reason that there's no steering wheel to work under. For LHD car go to right.

When putting it back in, tie the clutch release shaft lever back to the bell housing with a tie wrap or wire to avoid it being moved during installation. You may need to rotate the box clockwise slightly to get this lever to clear the floor pan until it's fairly well forward. When you've engaged the input shaft nose and splines before you bolt it up tight cut the tie wrap away so as not to trap it.

 

Good luck.

 

Dave McD

[RogerH]

Hi Dave,

ref your item #15.

I use an electric scissor jack under the GB centred on the drain plug.

 

This allows the GB to be raised to insert a length of wood (or metal) under the back of the GB.

As you pull the GB rearwards the scissor jack can tilt quite a way. Whereupon you can raise the GB more and more until you roll it over onto the floor pan.

 

The reverse is also true. Roll the GB into place onto the jack etc etc.

Heavy work but it does work. Everybody to their own.

 

Have you seen John Morrison's GB hoist it really is tasty. I've yet to make it.

http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/59031-gearbox-inout-easily/?hl=%2Bgearbox+%2Bhoist&do=findComment&comment=491658

 

 

Roger

Edited October 22, 2016 by RogerH

[simonjrwinter]

Thanks gents.

Roger, mechanic suspects diaphragm is broken. Some bizarre behaviour from clutch from severe judder to erratic clutch travel/takeup (cannot select 1st at times).

It's not right anyway and needs to be looked at.

Have a good read up on the buckeye triumph site...

[Bill Bourne]

Craig

Bill Bourne's list is a well written schedule of the various steps to which I would just add the following comments, to using his numbering system, having just removed and replaced my non overdrive box a week ago.

 

(7) It is easier to remove the gearbox cover if you remove the gear lever first.

(8) Rather than place the block of wood under the back plate/bellhousing, where it will impede removal of the bottom bolts, put it under the back of the sump. Before jacking up the unit, undo the rear gearbox mount complete with its cross bridge support and then when you've jacked up the engine it should come out downwards on the left side. When jacking the engine up don't take it too far up, in order to make sure you can still get at the top 3 nuts on the studs which are captive in the back of the block and still allow the gearbox to clear the bulkhead to remove it.

(9)Rather than put a 2nd jack under the gearbox I put a steel bar under the box to support it, resting on the floor at each side of the gearbox.

(10) The standard prop shaft has a very short slide back length on the splines leaving very little room to draw the gearbox back far enough for the input shaft nose to clear the flywheel. Whilst you might get it out with the prop shaft in place the tendency for the shafts' front drive flange to flop over can cause problems when you are trying to manoeuvre the gearbox back into line to reinstall it, particularly if it's a heavy overdrive box. May be better to remove the prop shaft completely.

(14) The 2 dowel bolts are 3/8" unf at approx. 2 o'clock and 8 o'clock and important to locate the box.. All the rest are 5/16" unf.

(15) I managed a non overdrive unit myself with difficulty but definitely need 2 for an O/D unit, one in car with one underneath to take some weight, another reason for not wanting the 2nd jack under there. For me it's always best to remove to left for no better reason that there's no steering wheel to work under. For LHD car go to right.

When putting it back in, tie the clutch release shaft lever back to the bell housing with a tie wrap or wire to avoid it being moved during installation. You may need to rotate the box clockwise slightly to get this lever to clear the floor pan until it's fairly well forward. When you've engaged the input shaft nose and splines before you bolt it up tight cut the tie wrap away so as not to trap it.

 

Good luck.

 

Dave McD

Hi Dave

 

I agree - those are all the little extra's I forgot. Its been awhile since I took mine out thank goodness -

Best Bill

[Andrew Smith]

Just a note from me - if you're only changing the clutch and pressure plate then there's no real need to hump the gearbox onto the floor pan or even remove it from the car. This is just making the job more difficult.

 

Simply pull it back about a foot and rest the bell hoising between the floor plans and the rear housing on the tunnel on old carpet.

 

Cheers

Andrew

[Guest ntc]

In out clutch change 4 .5hrs and yes there is a better way , the time is in the book.

[Dave McDonald]

Hi Dave,

Have you seen John Morrison's GB hoist it really is tasty. I've yet to make it.

http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/59031-gearbox-inout-easily/?hl=%2Bgearbox+%2Bhoist&do=findComment&comment=491658

 

 

Roger

Roger,

No I hadn't seen John's GB hoist but I've now read the thread and it looks very useful. Thanks.

Dave

[Nickffc]

Thanks Steve. The clutch is only 3 years old (approx 10,000km) so I want the clutch replace free of charge, but I don't want to burden the mechanic with labour costs of removing/installing the gearbox.

I am reasonably competent on the tools, just never tackled a gearbox before (the Dark Arts).

Sorry its not clear what the circumstances are but if your getting the clutch changed as a warranty free of charge job surely the garage should do the whole job free of charge...?

[stallie]

If it's any encouragement, I did it myself many years ago as the first box I had ever pulled.

 

I don't remember any real difficulties, just follow the brown book and supplement with suggestions from the folk here.

[TR674]

I was told clutch supplier only offers 1 year warrantee. With our cars which are used sparingly, it should be mileage, not necessarily time.

Depending on the damage discovered to the clutch, I may be pushing for warrantee coverage..........

I'll let you all know how it pans out.

Many thanks for advice, especially Bill. I will be saving those steps for future reference.

[TR674]

Another related question - whilst I have the fibreglass transmission tunnel out, I would like to replace the under carpet matting as it is deteriorating. Any recommendations on a good thermal mat?

Regards

Craig

[Bill Bourne]

Another related question - whilst I have the fibreglass transmission tunnel out, I would like to replace the under carpet matting as it is deteriorating. Any recommendations on a good thermal mat?

Regards

Craig

 

Hi Craig

 

I'm about to try - http://www.fatmat.com/

I've not used this before, but I'm about to on TR5 that I'm re-building, so the jury is out on this one.

or the other favourite for others is Dynamat http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/Dynamat-Sound-Insulation-/10000000009098968/g.html

It's not cheap though. or from here there are several choices http://www.deadening.co.uk/

 

I would google it to see where you can buy a good product locally at a reasonable price

 

Best Bill