BrooklandsSpeed Posted September 23, 2016 Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 (edited) Hi we are based at Brooklands and are interested to know more information on the Le Mans TR2 and 1955 Team cars . In particular 375 . We are researching this as a project to put a Team Car on Display to the public in our facility . We have a Rootes Le Mans Works Alpine and have researched that the for correct interpretation from the Rootes Club . Many thanks in advance . (Apologies PKV 374 375 376 can't edit the title ) Title now edited correctly Ian Edited September 23, 2016 by cvtrian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted September 23, 2016 Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 The note which I have on an overall listing of Works' competition TRs, states that Mike Ellis (Registrar for the sidescreen TRs) believes that PKV375 was scrapped. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrooklandsSpeed Posted September 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 Thanks Ian , most appreciated . I've spoken to Mike and we are in dialogue over this subject . We've also joined the club as I had a TR6 in my youth . Any other information would be helpful and appreciated . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted September 23, 2016 Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 Mike knows where 374 and 376 are located, in the UK and Germany as far as I am aware. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrooklandsSpeed Posted September 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 Thanks Ian , We have access to the UK car 374 by kind invitation of the owner , We are researching 375's continuous history with the kind help of Mike Ellis . I can't comment on 376 however Paul at North Devon Metalcraft is in a similar Buisness to us and they rebuilt it to how it is today and it's a credit to them We are in contact and known each other for years . Thank you for your input it's very much appreciated . We are simply reaching out here on the forum to non members who may have something to contribute to this thread . If anyone wants to see who we are Google Team AC or BrooklandsCars Ltd on Facebook we are located at the Top of the Test Hill in Buildings we have restored and will open part of that Building to the Public soon where we plan to Display significantly interesting Cars to the Public . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted September 24, 2016 Report Share Posted September 24, 2016 I'd be surprised if whatever mortal remains of PKV 375 might still be extant can demonstrate anything resembling a continuous history . . . . . There were claims of 'ownership' back in the late 1980s or early 90s, but the then claimant produced nothing more than some photocopies of documentation and photographs of parts - which failed to convince me or the late Stuart Jenkins . . . . . the claimant never did come up with anything that looked pukka. At the time there were suggestions that someone else had at least a few bits of the car, but no firm evidence emerged of those either. Yes I'm aware that PKV 375 is shown a being SORN on the DVLA record, but from past experience of so-called historic cars being conjured out of thin air I don't attach much significance to a DVLA record . . . . . Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bill.P. Posted September 25, 2016 Report Share Posted September 25, 2016 Hmmmmm....interesting that I haven't been permitted to inspect "PKV 375"......Bill P. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted September 25, 2016 Report Share Posted September 25, 2016 Perhaps Mike would like to comment? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
threej Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 I thought some one in USA thought they had 375. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 I don't think it would be appropriate to expect public comment from the Registrar as yet - either in his official or his personal capacity. And probably not for quite some time yet ! Tracking the history of a car with possible or suggested factory connections can be a lengthy and tedious process, with a great deal of money at stake considering that the 'ex-works' label can double, triple or even quadruple the sale price of a car to the investment collector. There aren't that many genuine 'ex-works' cars of any marque out there, and far far more bitsas, replicas, tributes, and downright fakes frauds and ringers - and TRs are no exception to that general rule. We don't need any more dodgy TRs being passed-off as 'ex-works' cars or whatever, the possession of a few mortal mechanical remains and a couple of bits of paper does not an 'ex-works' car remake . . . . . it makes a bitsa. Nothing wrong with a bitsa, I hasten to add, most of our cars are bitsas . . . . . but then we're not generally claiming them to be anything historic. If marque clubs are to be of value, then their officers must be permitted to deliberate at length and in private, seeking best advice and assistance from wherever it may be found. Owners and restorers have an understandable bias, the more so given the monetary figures involved, and one would hope that marque clubs would make every effort to sift truth from imagination, fantasy and rumour when it comes to possibly 'historic' vehicles. I don't see anything wrong with owners and restorers opening up a public discussion about the origins and history of their particular car - admirable principle, which is likely to bring out some previously unknown history, former owners, whatever helpful clues. But when it comes to the club officers, they must be allowed to beaver quietly and to conscientiously sift and assess what evidence there might be in confidence. Sorting the 'ex-works' wheat from the production chaff is just another aspect of our mission " to preserve the marque TR " ! Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 Alec, I'm with ya. You'll recall our earlier discussions about the unconfirmed mortal remains (not much!) of one of the works TR3As over here. If that car were to be recreated in a way that incorporated those parts it would be a cool tribute, possibly a bitsa-bitsa, but in no way the real works car! As soon as real money gets involved, provenance is everything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) Alec totally agree with your sentiments,however, "Sorting the 'ex-works' wheat from the production chaff is just another aspect of our mission " to preserve the marque TR " !" is this within the current remit of the Registrars? I have been pretty much told its not and never has been, mind you it might have changed since that conversation. Iain Edited September 28, 2016 by iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 Hi Iain, sorting wheat from chaff should be part of our mission, and an integral and crucial part at that, from where I'm sitting - and always has been. However, I'm well aware that not all of the great and the good would agree with my sentiments, not by a long chalk. But then, I don't have any commercial axes to grind in respect of 'historic' TRs, and never have had . . . . . . And I'm entirely confident that I can say the same 'no axes' about Mike Ellis, our TR2/3/3A Registrar, for whose integrity I have the highest respect, and have had for 40 years. Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 Hi Alec. Totally agree. Cheers Iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted September 30, 2016 Report Share Posted September 30, 2016 Interesting to note that PKV 375 is shown on DVLA as being SORN . . . . . . Vehicle details Vehicle make TRIUMPH Date of first registration 17 May 1955 Year of manufacture 1955 Cylinder capacity (cc) 1991cc CO₂Emissions Not available Fuel type PETROL Export marker No Vehicle status SORN in place Vehicle colour GREEN Vehicle type approval Not available Wheelplan 2 AXLE RIGID BODY Revenue weight Not available Which suggests that a car and registration number have recently been 're-united' after, presumably, a period of very many years ? And yet this process does not seem to have involved the officers of the TR Register - at least not as far as I can gather ? But who other than the authorised officers of the TR Register might be capable of authenticating such a vehicle of historic interest to DVLA ? Curiouser and curiouser . . . . . . ? Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted September 30, 2016 Report Share Posted September 30, 2016 Alec. Interesting observation. Iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bill.P. Posted October 1, 2016 Report Share Posted October 1, 2016 You are correct Alec--this "revival" of the PKV375 registration did NOT involve officers of the TRR, including myself.....we can only speculate as to why..................BP Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted October 1, 2016 Report Share Posted October 1, 2016 I find it very difficult to imagine that the officers of A N Other club are adequately experienced or qualified to determine, or even to suggest, that a particular sidescreen TR is or is not of 'ex-works' origin . . . . . and that is basing assessment on whatever remains extant, as opposed to a reconstructed car . . . . . assessing a rebuilt vehicle is even more of a challenge. Equally, I find it inconceivable that any owner believing him or herself in possession of such a car would wish to have it inspected by anyone other than the TR Register, as the specialist authority in respect of the TR model range. If the PKV 375 registration number has been re-united with a car by virtue of the say-so of AN Other club, then presumably those with an interest in that car may not have felt that it would have withstood the specialist scrutiny of TR Register officers ? I have never had much confidence in the DVLA system of re-uniting cars and registration numbers . . . . . and this instance, on the face of it, does nothing to enhance my view of the integrity of the process. The more so when the 'ex-works' tag, as what amounts to a passport to prestige social events, potentially adds an extra one in front of the asking price. Just my opinions of course, and obviously I'd be delighted if the car in question does turn out to be indisputably pukka . . . . . Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
threej Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 If someone had an old registration document, maintained it on the DVLA site, repeatedly updated it with current v5's as they were issued, and then as time went by made a SORN then it might have not been inspected by anyone. perhaps you could only do this before the 1960 tax exempt came in. There seems to be plenty of people around with documents for all ages & makes of car, find them at Beauleu & elsewhere! As I have a number of cars which have not been taxed since sorn came in I am told by DVLA that you do not need or cannot sorn them unless you change the ownership or tax them then the next owner may sorn? Now many older vehicles are tax exempt, then they might not get examined unless for an application to remove and change that registration under the change of cherished registration number system. From my experience the only time they want/wanted to inspect is if you suddenly tax a vehicle which has been off road untaxed for many years & in my case not taxed since the 1960's. ie over 50 years & with a low reg no. OK it looks suspicious..... so inspect it, but another series of letters & numbers, no inspection! It seems to me that if the vehicle is changed from unlicensed to tax exempt and then made a SORN it might not get a request for being inspected. I have registered a number of imported and tax exempt vehicles and never had anything inspected apart from the photographs and proof of age letters it was just a formality. Yet I was told they probably would be inspected. This registration does not show any liability which I think referred to the last tax which had expired. I stand to be educated about any differences on the aforementioned. DVLA seem to vary their own rules and procedures. If it was my nature and I had something not so pukka I certainly would not use the specialist club but use any other but..........why risk someone saying in their opinion it ain't what you claim! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roger murray-evans Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 Could be worth reviving this thread? Roger M_E Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 (edited) Roger you have piqued my curiosity? Why? Do we see smoke rising? Oh crumbs I have just read the other thread.....interesting. Iain Edited October 3, 2018 by iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roy53 Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 IT'S BACK A bit like the missing link. We have the 3s and Jabekee 2. are there any others to find / create Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 Or is it ????? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 Da da dahhhhh. What will happen in the next installment !!!!!!!! Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tr2_applegreen Posted November 11, 2019 Report Share Posted November 11, 2019 (edited) Yesterday, PKV374 was sold for £ 258,750 at Silverstone Auctions !!! https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/events/2019-auctions/nec-classic-motor-show-sale-2019/nec-classic-motor-show-sale-saturday-9th-sunday-10th-november-2019/2pm-sunday-10th-november-cars/1955-triumph-tr2-pkv-374-the-ex-works-le-mans-24-hours Edited November 11, 2019 by tr2_applegreen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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