Dtype53 Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 This is driving me crazy. I have been stranded so many times outside my local pub that they have started keeping a pint of my favourite ale behind the bar. My 1955 TR2 is pretty standard except for a TR4 starter motor and oversize "liners".The engine was restored some 12 years ago when a new coil, points and condenser were fitted. SU carbs also new then. She starts well when cold but if you park her when the engine is hot......no chance until she has cooled down about an hour later. Things I have checked are: Carbs correctly set up and fuel in the fuel chambers. Sediment bowl, spark plugs (quite sooty), battery good, good spark at plugs, valve clearances, points. choke linkage and operation. Priming lever on fuel pump fills up sediment bowl......which is always full of fuel. I have tried various starting techniques and with the accelerator pedal to the floor the engine "catches" occasionally....but will not start until cool again. I feel some members must have experienced this....please help if you can. PS: I have noticed two spring loaded, brass push buttons on the carbs, one on the float chamber lid and the other at the base of the carb., does anyone know what these are for? Thank you. Scott Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) Scott, Welcome ! The tickler pin in the float chamber lid allow a poorly sealing f/c valve to be 'tickled' in the hope of curing it leaking or sticking. I'd check the spark timing. Failing to start might be heat soak causing vapour lock in the pipes/jet. As a test wrap aluminium foil shinly side out around the base fo the carbs. But I think all TR2s would do it if that were the case. Peter Edited July 24, 2016 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 Hi Scott, Welcome to the forum. Where are you in the country/world. I had something similar (but completely different) a couple of weeks ago on my 4A - with SU's) It would just start from cold (three or four attempts) It would just start from hot/warm (three or four attempts) I found that the butterfly spindles had worn badly (17 years and many miles) of use. The holes in tha body were good. A repair kit sorted it a treat. This gave a stable tick over with whatever revs I wanted. Because of the repair kit the centre jets needed adjustment. This is a simple process that I mucked up completely. Any way the front carb ended up too rich From cold with choke the front carb was over chocked and wouldn't go The rear carb was happy and just managed to pick up From hot and no choke the front carb was too rich and again didn't want to know. The rear carb was again happy. Check your spindles and your mixture. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 How's the fuel line routed? From the pump to the carbs? It helps when it's covered with heat protecting material. Modern fuels tend to suffer more from under bonnet heat than older fuels. The original routing of the fuel line was okay back in the 50s. Nowadays, you need to come up with something else... Or / and a heat shield... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dtype53 Posted July 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 Thank you chaps for replying so quickly. From what you say, a vapour lock seems a strong possibility. The engine does run a little hot....around 185 to 190 degrees and heat insulation wrap seems like a great idea. Do you have a product name/source? I have not checked the ignition timing so I need to look at that, providing I can locate a pulley mark down there. I should also check for induction leaks. I am pretty sure that the vacuum advance mechanism is inoperative.....but probably not relevant. Could a poor condenser cause hot starting problems? Menno, your engine compartment is simply amazing. Roger, I live on the North Norfolk Coast. Thank you all Scott Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Colin Fairhurst Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 This is driving me crazy. I have been stranded so many times outside my local pub that they have started keeping a pint of my favourite ale behind the bar. My 1955 TR2 is pretty standard except for a TR4 starter motor and oversize "liners".The engine was restored some 12 years ago when a new coil, points and condenser were fitted. SU carbs also new then. She starts well when cold but if you park her when the engine is hot......no chance until she has cooled down about an hour later. Things I have checked are: Carbs correctly set up and fuel in the fuel chambers. Sediment bowl, spark plugs (quite sooty), battery good, good spark at plugs, valve clearances, points. choke linkage and operation. Priming lever on fuel pump fills up sediment bowl......which is always full of fuel. I have tried various starting techniques and with the accelerator pedal to the floor the engine "catches" occasionally....but will not start until cool again. I feel some members must have experienced this....please help if you can. PS: I have noticed two spring loaded, brass push buttons on the carbs, one on the float chamber lid and the other at the base of the carb., does anyone know what these are for? Thank you. Scott Hi Scott, I have experienced this problem on two occasions. The first was with my Triumph Roadster 2000 and the second time was with my TR2 (both with the same basic block and ignition layout). I couldn't even switch off at the petrol station without having to push the car to one side and wait 30 to 40 minutes for it to cool down. I spent two years with the Roadster trying out all kinds of suggestions and listening to various theories about fuel vapour locking (which I think is a much more rare occurrence than is generally claimed) all to no avail. The problem disappeared when I fitted a new coil and mounted it on the inner wing. The old coil was overheating and becoming too weak. When the same problem occurred with the TR2 I did the same thing. I haven't had any trouble since and that was 3 and 6 years ago. Regards, Colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 ...The problem disappeared when I fitted a new coil and mounted it on the inner wing. The old coil was overheating and becoming too weak... I like that hypothesis, Colin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 Coil on the inner wing: good call! Have a look at pic at the top! I mounted my car's coil on the inner wing. Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dtype53 Posted July 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2016 Hi. Thank you Colin. Replies sound very hopeful. I notice that in my car the copper fuel pipe between the carbs. is routed fairly near the exhaust manifold. Also noticed that there is a brown, oily substance leaking from the connection where the vacuum advance pipe joins the front carburettor. Course of action?..........Replace coil, condenser and points and insulate the fuel line. Also sort out the intake manifold connection. Best wishes All.........sorry about poor quality of engine bay photo. Scott Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bully Posted July 25, 2016 Report Share Posted July 25, 2016 Hi Scott, I had a similar problem last year in my Tr4A. Turned out to be a split HT cable hidden with the Distributer Cap. Took me 18 months to find. Sounds electrical to me. My suggestion would be to swap parts with a fellow enthusiast to narrow down where the fault is. Don't rule out anything which seems too simple. Good luck Bully Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted July 25, 2016 Report Share Posted July 25, 2016 When you stop, just release the bonnet catches. Heat will be dissipated far more rapidly No need to lift the bonnet any higher - the crack at the front will allow quite a flow of air, thus cooling the parts which are likely to suffer from fuel vaporisation. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted July 25, 2016 Report Share Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) My similar problem was the spark. I replaced the condenser with a racing unit from a mini .for £32.00. and it has never started so well. Distributor Doctor is an expert in condensers. good luck Richard & H. Edited July 25, 2016 by Richardtr3a Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EdwinTiben Posted July 25, 2016 Report Share Posted July 25, 2016 Scott, your action for coil, condensor and fuel would be the first thing i could think of. curious, keep us posted ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted July 25, 2016 Report Share Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) Scott, Welcome. 1. Does your coil have CB & SW or - & + stamped on it next to the Low Tension terminals? (If CB & SW you will need to know if the coil is designed for positive or negative earth 12v cars.) 2. Next thing I would like to check is the polarity of the car and its battery. - Is the battery arranged original positve earth or negative earth? 3. Now check the wiring of the coil low tension leads (LT) if the car is negative earth the - ve terminal of the coil should be connected to the distributor LT lead. ... or the + ve coil LT terminal to distributor if the car is positive earth. The other LT terminal receives power from the ignition supply. This will get the coil LT lead connections eliminated from your search. Cheers Peter W Edited July 25, 2016 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel C Posted July 25, 2016 Report Share Posted July 25, 2016 may I also add, if you think its fueling try using brake cleaner spray near the vacuum advance/inlet manifold gaskets/carb linkages and see if it starts or if running the revs rise and fall. be very careful obviously near hot manifolds etc as highly flammable but this stuff finds all sorts of poor sealing gaskets/air leaks etc. But I agree, sounds like coil to me and don't think buying a new one has solved your problems, ask a friend if you can take one of their car that you know is working! I remember once changing the condenser for a new one, then another new one...then and old scruffy one and that finally did the trick! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted July 26, 2016 Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 According to Tony Tranter in Haynes "Automobile Electrical Manual", ignition systems are designed to have negative polarity at the centre electrode and if reversed can be up to 40% less efficient.Coils for both Positive and Negative earth vehicles were produced, but who knows if anyone has changed a coil for the wrong type in the history of older vehicles, so it is wise to check polarity of the spark (see below for testing polarity using a lead pencil).With early coils, swapping the CB and SW leads will switch polarity of the spark. Later coils use + and - but the requirements are the same.To test the spark direction with a lead pencil, interpose the writing tip of a lead pencil between the spark plug top stud and the HT lead, leaving a small gap either side of the pencil tip. If the polarity is correct, a flare between the pencil and the spark plug will be seen (if the flare is between the pencil tip and the HT lead, then the polarity is reversed). Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dtype53 Posted July 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 Thanks for the info. chaps. Easy tip about the bonnet catches and HT leads. have checked the polarity wiring and it seems ok for battery and distributor.........but have yet to do the pencil test. HT leads checked out ok. New condenser (from the DD) arrived yesterday and, wife's gardening mania notwithstanding, hope to get it fitted today........will keep you all informed. Best wishes, Scott Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mart O Posted July 30, 2016 Report Share Posted July 30, 2016 Lucky man, my wife wouldn't fit a new condenser for me! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dtype53 Posted July 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Hello.........she goes! Fitted new points, condenser and rotor arm, took her up to 195 degrees and no problem re-starting. Tried starting from hot three times and each time she fired-up with one turn of the crank. It could well have been the condenser at fault. I think we are very fortunate in the register that we can consult such a knowledgeable group of individuals. I don't know how I will fill my days now. Thanks to all, Scott Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rhino_mac Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 A great result. Excellent news and this has been filed away in the back of my brain in case something similar happens to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 I remember Martin Jay (Distributor Doctor) talking to me about condensers some 3 years ago, and this is what he says on his website: The quality of the commonly available condensers is very poor, in terms of both the physical fit & the performance /longevity. We have recently dismantled & examined 4 examples of the orange wired versions, from 4 different factories all around the globe. All of which are readily available & prevalent in the UK. The results confirmed our suspicions & why we are having so many phone calls from owners who've fallen victim to them. Original specification Lucas condensers & ours have 3 metres of winding inside, the orange ones have between 1 metre & 1.5 metres. The internal bonding & construction also left a lot to be desired. Rotor arms, condensers (capacitors) and points are such small and comparatively inexpensive items, but it pays to purchase the best as inferior products can cause a lot of grief, waste a lot of time and ruin one’s enjoyment of the car. I suffered from two **** rotor arms before Martin started his company, but am just one of his happy customers. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PGB BME Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 Hi Scott When the car was running did you have any other signs things weren't running as they should. I only ask because on the way to Silverstone Saturday my TR3 started ok then stuttered, loss of power, almost like fuelling issues but thinking about it it was almost a mis fire (with the occassional back fire), sometimes by hitting the accelerator I was able to drive through the misfire. On the way home Sunday made it back to junction 25 M1 at the slip road the engine died and would not start. With assistance from 2 guys (help greatly rec'd) pushed the car to a layby where would not start, left it 10 -15mins and hey presto started, I'm wondering if its electrical condensor/ coil issues? and not fuelling. Regards Phil Oil pressure fine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 Have you looked at the filter bowl of the pump? Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PGB BME Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 hi Ian No not yet not had any time today with work etc will have a look later Regards Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 Try the condenser. I had the same problem and after all other efforts the one simple answer was the condenser. Change it for a proper specification unit from Distributor Doctor Good luck Richard & H. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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