Another problem: overheating

[qim]

No, the head isn't to be removed, so the original head gasket should be fine being left alone as long as it hasn't blown.

 

Mick Richards

I meant the copper gasket...

[Motorsport Mickey]

I meant the copper gasket...

The head gasket is copper, well a mix of copper skin and a composite asbestos and other material inside. This is the gasket which goes underneath the cylinder head between the head and the cylinder block (your short engine). Is that the gasket you mean ?

 

Mick Richards

[Motorsport Mickey]

It must be correct because when the engine heats up and the fan is turned on the temperature falls. But I will check it again next time the car goes to the "doctor"

 

Thanks

 

Not correct...the electric fan is in front of the radiator and even if the fan is fitted incorrectly sucking rather than blowing will have some affect cooling the engine, it has to because it removes the hot air from behind the radiator inside the engine compartment and pulls it outside.

However it won't be very effective in motion because the fan is fighting the air incoming from a moving vehicle, obviously when the car is stood still the fan will then be more effective and cool the engine more but not as much as it should if the fan is working correctly pushing the outside colder air through the rad into the engine bay. Well worth checking and easy to fix, just reverse the wires to the motor and the fan should blow the other way.

 

Mick Richards

Edited August 15, 2016 by Motorsport Mickey

[qim]

The head gasket is copper, well a mix of copper skin and a composite asbestos and other material inside. This is the gasket which goes underneath the cylinder head between the head and the cylinder block (your short engine). Is that the gasket you mean ?

 

Mick Richards

Yes, that's what I meant.

 

Did you read my Edit regarding adapting engine to unleaded fuel? is that a good idea? What parts would I need? Where would I get them?

 

Thanks

[Motorsport Mickey]

Yes, that's what I meant.

 

Did you read my Edit regarding adapting engine to unleaded fuel? is that a good idea? What parts would I need? Where would I get them?

 

Thanks

Typically the engine would only need the exhaust valve seats cutting and a hardened inserts pressing into it. I'd suggest you use a head development firm used to this, they will give you an inclusive price including the work and parts, there are a number available.

I'll drop you a PM (Personal message, you should see a red flag with a number on it appear on the envelope in the black band right at the top of the page), click on it and you'll see a message to read which you can reply to. The information inside that is available only to you and the poster. Bearing in mind your constraints on time you may consider that it may not require changing, if you think you may exceed a couple of thousand miles a year then in 7 or 8 years there may be a requirement for it.

 

Mick Richards

Edited August 15, 2016 by Motorsport Mickey

[qim]

Will the process of tightening (retorquing) the head uncover the cylinder heads and allow an exact measurement to see if I was fitted with a 2200 cc engine (rather than the smaller 2 litre)?

 

If not, how can I check?

Edited August 16, 2016 by qim

[rhino_mac]

Nope, you'll need to take the rocker cover off to torque the studs but you'll only see the valvegear under the cover. The tops of the pistons are under the head in the actual block.

 

My understanding is the 86mm and 87mm pistons (2.2ish) are more common (and cheaper) than the original 83mm (1991cc) pistons/liners so it's likely if yours short engine is reasonably new, it's been "upgraded" with these pistons. But the only way to tell would be to remove the head and measure them.

 

I wouldn't worry too much. I can't tell the difference between 83mm and 87mm pistons as my engine was rebuilt with the bigger pistons.

[Motorsport Mickey]

If you need to confirm the engine size, the easiest way is to go to the next stage and remove the head and measure the engine cylinder bores that are in the block.

However if you are employing a non specialist mechanic or garage to do this work for you be aware that removing the head means the cylinder liners which are clamped by the head in the block below must not be disturbed. They are sealed at the bottom of the cylinder (the cylinder being a cast iron component shaped like a piece of pipe) by a complicated gasket referred to as a Figure of 8 gasket.

Sometimes a garage will undo the nuts on the cylinder head and then "turn over" the engine to help break the gasket seal between the cylinder block (your short engine) and the cylinder head. This must NOT be done otherwise the FO8 seal mentioned in the last paragraph will likely be disturbed and then the liners would need removing and the engine resealing again.

 

Mick Richards

Edited August 16, 2016 by Motorsport Mickey

[Dave Larnder]

qim

.

A quick way to check if the fan is blowing into the radiator or not, is to light a candle in front of the fan and watch to see if the flame goes towards the radiator which is correct, or if the candle is blown out , which means the fan is blowing the wrong way round. Do not start the engine, only the fan for this test.

I too sent you a P.M. so you will see the red light on the Letter (mail) image up the top right hand corner

Dave

[qim]

qim

.

A quick way to check if the fan is blowing into the radiator or not, is to light a candle in front of the fan and watch to see if the flame goes towards the radiator which is correct, or if the candle is blown out , which means the fan is blowing the wrong way round. Do not start the engine, only the fan for this test.

 

Dave

If you don't hear from me for a while is because the fuel got in the way of the candle...

 

Thanks!

[qim]

Hi

 

Sorry to return to this thread.

 

I have now bought and received a number of items suggested above, and in October I will take out the radiator and have it serviced, install the duct kit, and tighten the head.

 

This brings me to another doubt: when I had the new short engine put in and as the car started to overheat, Moss suggested, and I accepted, to install an oil cooler. Now that I have an electric fan and with the duct kit, I wonder if I really need it. Apart from everything else, it probably interferes with the flow of air to the radiator.

 

Should I take it out?

[iain]

Where is this oil cooler installed? In the mouth to the radiator? This would not help cooling.

Iain

[qim]

Where is this oil cooler installed? In the mouth to the radiator? This would not help cooling.

Iain

I don't have the car here, but from vague memory at the bottom in front of the radiator.

[Ben Freer]

That certainly wont be helping. On our Spitty (back in the day) even the angle and positioning of the number plate made a big difference!

[qim]

Should I flush the radiator before having it serviced, in order to flush the sludge in the engine block?

 

What should I put in the radiator after having it serviced, bearing in mind that the car "lives" in Portugal with high temperatures in summer and moderate ones in winter hardly ever below 10º C.

Just water, or with something else added?

 

Thanks

Edited August 23, 2016 by qim

[Motorsport Mickey]

Bypass the radiator (disconnect the hoses ) from the engine, then you can run a garden hose into the engine and give it full mains pressure without stressing the rad.

Open the engine drain tap (side of the block towards the rear under the carburettors), don't be concerned if nothing comes out, they often sludge up around the back cylinder and the tap. If blocked poke through the tap with welding wire or whatever to dislodge any muck, careful if you have a remote start solenoid positioned near the tap you don't drop whatever you are using onto the live connector, if metal it will be spectacular ! Keep working at the tap until it clears, then use a hooked or angled wire to scrape as much from inside as you can until water runs out clear. If you can clamp the hose into a pipe (reverse flush to normal flow is better) and a little pressure develops in the block so much the better for cleaning.

Don't forget to check whether the electric fan is blowing the through the rad into the engine bay rather than sucking the heat back through the rad from inside out, then let us know. Having the connections mixed up or the fan blade fitted the wrong way round is not uncommon and seriously hurts the heat removal from the engine.

 

Mick Richards

Edited August 23, 2016 by Motorsport Mickey

[Richardtr3a]

I have only just seen this thread and I have some useful advice.

 

I had exactly the same problem after an engine overhaul. I fitted all the modifications mentioned here but it still overheated above 60mph. I also changed the pressurised cap on the radiator for a plain cap and fitted a pipe to an overflow bottle, mounted on the wing, which had the pressure cap. This gives extra capacity.

 

After some advice and a lot of research I took the engine to a specialist, Darryl at Racetorations in Lincoln. This is a wet liner engine which means that the liners are individually removable. .They identified the uneven liner heights causing gasket leaks. The liners have to be the same height with a few thou. variation. This allowed overheating with no loss of oil or coolant.

 

This was very annoying because I had copied the page from the manual and delivered it at the same time as the engine and explained it to the man on the front desk.

 

Racetorations rebuilt the liners and assembled the engine correctly. After that I have had no overheating problems for the last 20 years. The answer is to deliver the engine to someone who has done the job many times before and tells the truth.

 

These people are hard to find in many industries. Will you need to find a specialist in Portugal ?

 

Good luck Richard & H.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Richardtr3a

[qim]

 

These people are hard to find in many industries. Will you need to find a specialist in Portugal ?

 

Good luck Richard & H.

 

 

Afraid so!...

 

Thank you all for the advice

[Dave Larnder]

Hi Again

I don´t have an oil cooler in Spain, so no reason why you need one for normal road use, racing etc. is different.

Take the rad out and flush it individually, that way you can see what comes out from it alone.

When you flush the block, take the tap out completely and place plastic over the starter motor to keep it dry. When I did mine 3 months ago, the water from the garden hose came out full bore and no rust so that was good, no apparent sludge behind no 4 cylinder where it usually collects.

When you fill your engine and rad again use 50% DISTILLED water and 50% anti-freeze. I use Comma Super Coldmaster Concentrated Anti Freeze from U.K. as a matter of fact a friend is bringing me a 5 litre pack of it from U.K. next week. After being in the engine for over three years draining the rad and block, the water came out slightly green whereas the anti freeze is blue in colour so the difference must have been a mixture with brown rust although only a minute amount.

As a last thought, Does your radiator still have the crank handle hole in it, if so get it rebuilt WITHOUT the hole as this reduces the cooling area by up to 30% as the pipes above and below the hole are blocked off.

 

Dave

[qim]

Results of first stage:

 

I flushed the cooling system by emptying the radiator and filling it agin with an added radiator cleaner from Redex http://plural.pro/product/limpeza-rapida-radiador-250ml/

After flushing I filled witj just water and the next day emptied it again and filled with Redex anti-freeze http://plural.pro/product/circuito-fechado-5l-rosa/

 

Today, I took the car out, drove around 30 kms in around 28º. without the electric fan, and the car only overheated in traffic as I went through a town. The rest of the way it stayed at the correct temperature. same on the way back.

 

This means that things are getting better.

 

In any case, in October, I will take the rad out for servicing (yes it has the crank handle hole, but I want to keep it to keep the car as original as possible), eliminate the oil cooler which is in fact blocking the air flow to the rad, flush the engine block, tighten the head, change the thermostat for a bellows type, and add the recently purchased duct panel.

 

I will let you know the results, although by October the weather will be rather cool... with temperature down to the mid-20s C.

[qim]

One doubt:

 

I don't have the car here and can't remember seeing the holes for the fitting of the radiator shroud. Are there instructions anywhere regarding the actual position of the fixings?

 

Thanks

Edited August 27, 2016 by qim

[stuart]

They are fixed by the overrider support brackets and the inner wheel arch to front panel bolts.

Stuart.

[Guest]

They are fixed by the overrider support brackets and the inner wheel arch to front panel bolts.

Stuart.

Like this:

 

[stuart]

Like this:

 

I think he meant the shroud not the rad itself Menno.

Stuart.

[Guest]

oops