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HiTorque starter motor Hmm no thanks.


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7 hours ago, ianc said:

The ideal relay is the solenoid with push button, as fitted to TR2/3/4 (Moss BCA4501), which is rated to carry the high current drawn by the standard starter motor.

And, because it has a push button, one can easily carry out compression testing without the need to get into the car to operate the ignition switch.

Ian Cornish

+1   That's what I have.

Bob.

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  • 1 month later...
On 12/13/2021 at 7:33 PM, RobH said:

Nobody has said that Phil. In fact it, or a high-current relay, MUST be used since the engagement solenoid of the starter takes a high current - up to 40 Amps depending on the type - which is far more than is safe for the starter switch alone.

This drawing shows what 'snibble' means -  in the first arrangement the starter motor and its engagement solenoid are both connected to the car solenoid. He says the motor can continue to feed its own solenoid by back - emf because of the link.  In the second arrangement the car solenoid feeds only the engagement solenoid so there is no link.  (the starter engagement solenoid has its own contacts which switch power to the motor).starter2.jpg.b7b46a15ebb261ab7eb972ed0a325108.jpg

 

Rob, Just looking at this again, with the starter motor connected to the live supply upstream of the original solenoid relay, what stops the motor being powered and turning all the time?

Rgds Ian

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The motor has its own built-in solenoid switch Ian as part of the engagement mechanism. The motor won't run until you power its solenoid. 

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  • 1 month later...

old topic. .... but, here's my question.

 

Bought a WOSP LSM006

for my TR3A.

There is a fitted stud on the topmost side that requires a nut and washer once installed.

Can anyone tell me how to get the nut tightened?

I can not figure out a way to get a socket or wrench on the nut to tighten.  The transmission cover is right on it and access from below seems impossible.

Edited by Opie
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I have the power lite version I found it easier to turn the ring so the stud is at the bottom and fit a bolt to the top. 
 

I then place a spanner on the top bolt so it jams and just do up the nut. 
the stud nut is reachable from below 
 

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« Can anyone tell me how to get the nut tightened?

I can not figure out a way to get a socket or wrench on the nut to tighten.  The transmission cover is right on it and access from below seems impossible »

Just been through this exercise this week after my Powerlite packed up.

You can get at it from behind and underneath using a 9/16 socket, a wobbly and a short extension to get round the boss on the bell housing but you may need an assistant looking in from above to help you put the socket on the nut initially.

It’s a whole lot easier putting the original Lucas M318G starter motor back. For me, the reward was in the sound of it cranking over the engine and then everything firing up. I find the Powerlite efficient but it sounds like a Mk 1 Ford Cortina. (remember them?)

james

Edited by james christie
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My gearbox tunnel already had a hole cut in it allowing access to the top fixing with a short extension on a ratchet - so I used the wosp stud as-is.

………. Andy 

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2 hours ago, Opie said:

old topic. .... but, here's my question.

 

Bought a WOSP LSM006

for my TR3A.

There is a fitted stud on the topmost side that requires a nut and washer once installed.

Can anyone tell me how to get the nut tightened?

I can not figure out a way to get a socket or wrench on the nut to tighten.  The transmission cover is right on it and access from below seems impossible.

Socket on a UJ with a log extension.  OR cut a hole in the gearbox tunnel.

 

Roger

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I just assumed that you had to remove the gearbox tunnel. And on that subject I have replaced the majority of the bolts with socket head set screws of which I have tapered the tips so it’s a much easier task to remove and replace it with a battery drill. 

Rgds Ian

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12 hours ago, Lebro said:

I can get to mine from the engine side with a cranked ring spanner

Bob

Ditto 

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I faced trhe same issue when fittinmg a Powerlite to my 4A. After some head scratching I came up with the (now obvious) solution. I carefully cut out a 4” x 4.5” section of the original thick cardboard gearbox cover behind the upper starter motor fixing, as shown. This allowed a slim 9/16” socket to be fitted on the nut and made any subsequent removal of the starter motor a doddle. A thin piece of aluminium or steel sheet, suitably shaped to fit the cover curvature, should be cut a little larger than the hole and then secured by self tapping screws in spire fixings as shown. I have a Phoenix exhaust manifold and it was not necessary to remove this to fit the Powerlite motor. I used to have to uncouple the lower steering column to get enough clearance to remove and replace the old M418G, now happliy a thing of the past.  

Tim

Access panel in gearbox cover.JPG

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We use a crows foot or short ring on an extension with knuckle bar and or ratchet from the engine bay side on side screen cars

 

Peter W

 

The tools we use from the engine bay side

... and yes the open ended crows foot is ex Pratt & Whitney radial engine cylinder assembly tool.

image.png.62c7d63910a4b8be2a92f50aba60cb2e.png

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Those of us with sidescreen cars and left hooker steering have a lot more space to operate in. Even with a 4 branch Revington manifold the Powerlite came out and the Lucas M318G went back in its place. Only had to remove the air filters on the HS6 carburettors.

I’m still trying to figure out how Bob gets at that top nut from the front with a cranked ring spanner!

james

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When the field windings on the original Lucas starter for my TR4 burned out a couple of years ago I had the starter motor rebuilt by  firm in London. They did an excellent job at a cost far less than buying a replacement motor (original restored or hi torque). The repaired starter has worked without fault ever since. This is my much preferred solution.

Unfortunately, while I would prefer to continue to use my original 'bomb type' starter motor for my TR3 I had to replace it with a WOSP in 2019. The reason for this is that the 'bomb type' motor has a metalastic axial bush on the shaft of the commutator which acts as a shock absorber when the motor engages. That works fine when you have an original lucas bush - but even that delaminates over a couple of years with use. When the bush delaminates you are left with a starter motor that spins but will not transfer the torque to the starter ring gear suficient to turn the engine over.

I've tried the reproduction bushes from Moss but the quality of the rubber in the metalastic bush is so poor it barely lasts a couple of months - and i've not been able to find a source of good quality bushes. Hence, I've been forced to fit a WOSP. It's been very reliable so far although the it makes a real racket on starting.

If anyone has a solution that will allow me to continue to use my 'bomb type' starter that doesn't invoilve me having to strip it every few months I'd be very interested.

JeffR

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Hi Bob,

Thank you for your prompt reply and kind offer. I could potentially be interested in that as I have rebuilt the starter motor but using a new Moss bush - so it would be easy to change it over. The last working bush I had was an NOS one from Revingtons which cost much money and lasted a couple of years before delamination. It's last breath was on its return from the last day of the Liege-Brescia - Liege Rally in 2019. This ultimately involved a couple of crew members from Brittany Ferries having to give me a push start to drive the car off the ferry on arrival in Blighty - very embarrassing, especially as the car had performed faultlessly for the 3,000 miles of the rally.

Please pm me with the cost of the bush. I'd also be interested to know how available these are, as after the Revington bush failed I couildn't find another original anywhere.

Cheers,

JEFF

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Would it be possible just to make a solid version of that bush?

Stuart.

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So having removed the non functionning Powerlite RAC102, I tested what I could on the bench. The solenoid appeared not to be going all the way home to contact the main terminals and operate the starter. Although it did operate if I manually pushed the solenoid fully home

After calling Powerlite, they suggested sending it to them. Got a message with photos today explaining the problem. « There is water ingression causing oxidisation, which in our opinion is the cause of this issue you have been experiencing. »  Their photos attached below.

My reply to them sums up my thoughts

« Thanks for your reply.

Bit surprised that a component which is by definition low down in the engine compartment is so sensitive to water ingression - or even lets it in!! This was never the case with the good old cranky Lucas M318G in 48 years of my ownership. Even in France it rains quite often. »

In all fairness Powerlite have offered a 25% discount on the purchase of a new one

James

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