tr3a Paint shop delays

[Richardtr3a]

What is the technique to get my car back from the paint shop. It was a two week job involving the two front wings and the front panel. We have just passed week 11.

 

The body shop have done a great job so far. The bonnet gaps are correct and the door gaps are even. The grille fits the front panel which now fits very well.

 

I have been there three times and sent four emails over the period. I called last Wednesday with the letters for the front panel, so that they line up properly before painting, and asked him to finish it in a week. He said he would try. It was agreed that it would be done two weeks ago, but that did not happen.

 

I rang at lunchtime on Saturday and he came to the 'phone did swearing and was angry, saying that the job was taking much longer than he thought and he was not charging me any extra. In order to maintain income he has to do other work. I can understand his position.

 

If he is losing his temper then i will not call again. I must be down to emails now which his wife, who works in the office, only replies that he is doing his best.

 

There is a Ford Capri and another old car gathering dust in the top workshop and when I inquired about them he explained that the owner did not care. I have made it clear that I do care but do not know what to do next.

 

He did the two back wings before and the finished work was first class.

 

HELP

 

 

 

 

[Nigel A]

Hi Richard

 

I had a similar problem and it took 10 weeks in the end

 

This was due partly to his bad knees that meant some time off sick and also taking on other small jobs all the time.

 

He was only five minutes away so I popped round regularly and was always polite. He likes dogs, so I took George and after explaining about his cancer and how I had little time to get the car together and spend as much time with George as possible before Laon, he finally stopped taking on new jobs and completed the work.

 

He did a good job for the money, although because of his knees the bottom of the sills, front and rear valence haven't been flatted properly and there are a couple of runs. These are only visible if you lie on the ground, so perhaps one day I'll do it.

 

See you at Le Mans

 

Nigel

[Paul Harvey]

Richard,

 

Why don't you pop down again and ask him whether it is the money that is the problem or something else. Be calm an reasonable because he is doing a good job, but too slowly.

That is better than a bad job quickly.

 

Ask him how much extra cash he would need to get it done immediately, and whether that would help.

Offer to pay him that however he likes the day you can collect the car.

 

And then you will know what the problem is. And you can decide how much to actually pay him based on how sensibly he has handled your request.

[boxofbits]

Hi Richard

 

You are in a difficult position, and maybe he is too, as he is also trying to earn a living from 'bread and butter' repairs. But you could ask him by email if there is a target date you can establish between you such as mid June for instance.

 

If he agrees then fine, but if he baulks at that, offer to pay him for the work done so far, and simply take the car elsewhere, obviously parting on amicable terms.

 

There must be a few other good bodyshops in town, so do your homework on this and make contact with a shop or two recommended by friends or someone you know, so that you have something in place by the time that mutually agreed deadline arrives.

 

That way you are not going to feel so frustrated as you will know your next move in advance and will be able to move forward. Is there anyone here on the forum in the west London area who has used a good quality and reliable bodywork company?

 

Good luck with it.

 

Regards

 

Kevin

[Graham Harris]

Richard,

Sounds like he could be going down the tubes, i think i would go down there prepared to pickup the car weather it is finished or not and tell him thats what you have come for and see what he has to say.

I think you should do it soon otherwise the next time you go there the place could be locked up and your car impounded by his creditors.

Not verry helpfull am i ,sorry

Graham

[Nigel A]

Hi Richard

 

I did have a chat with my painter about money when the delays first started as I wondered if that was the problem.

 

He assured me that he was happy with what he quoted and he always stuck to his quotes unless other work was added by the customer. He was also a sucker for sob stories when pretty girls wanted a rush job before their husbands found out.

 

I now he was having some health problems, but when he realised just how much work I had to do in so little time and my problems with George he really got stuck in, even cancelling his Easter plans and working right through.

 

I tried to always be reasonable and because he was genuine, it paid off.

 

He is know using pictures of the finished TR in his advertising.

 

Take Harry along and explain just how important Le Mans is and I'm sure he'll get it done in time.

 

Good luck

 

 

Nigel

[Richardtr3a]

Hi,

 

He has given me suggested days when the car could be ready and always misses them. I called by to see him and he explained that he would call me when finished. After a few days I called on Saturday lunchtime when he was closing up and he lapsed into the F word a few times. This is a family business and his father in law runs the business. However he just takes the phone up to the workshop and is not helping.

 

I would just go and collect it but he is doing the best work the car body has seen in 20 years. The car is on stands with no wheels and dust everywhere. His workshop is at the back of the yard with other cars and vans in the way which do not move much. A VW beetle has been there for years apparently.

 

Thanks for your advice so far.

 

Richard & H.

[Tony]

Hi,

I know the feeling well, my 4 has been in the body shop for nearly 9 months, i expected it back before Christmas, then Easter, and now it could be July!! They keep telling me " it has to be right" and that

takes time. Problem is they also do insurance jobs and they get priority. So my 4 will not be at the INW this year!!

 

good luck with your car,

 

tony

[Nigel A]

Hi

 

I mentioned previously that my painter is now using pictures of the car in his advertising so thought I would post a picture of his van

 

 

[Richardtr3a]

Hi Nigel,

 

You are doing very well with your painter. Mine is making a lot of stress for us. I am waiting to send him an email this evening which may infuriate him.

 

Why can't I use emoticons on this website but OK on the emails.

 

Let you know later.

 

Thanks, Richard & H.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Richardtr3a

[Stevecross]

Richard

 

IMHO sending the guy an Email that you know will infuriate him will have nothing other than a negative effect on your desire to get the car finished.

 

You seem more than happy with the quality of the work the guy has done.

 

That is the important thing.

 

You could have got a shiny car back from someone else only to notice when you got it home it was actually a dog.

 

From what I read you are waiting for him to finish painting and fitting two wings.

 

I suspect from what you say about the work you have seen so far that the chap cares about the work he does.

 

If he did not care he could paint them and hang them in a couple of days if he did not care about the quality of the product (I know the process. I paint all my cars myself)

 

I would suggest you try pleasant, non confrontational face to face contact & reason.

 

Sending a snotty email may feel good at the time but for the guys that do the good work in this industry they always have a waiting list of customers so it is water off a Ducks back.

 

You also never mentioned if you have paid him an up front fixed fee, progress payment or zero. All have a bearing on how you should handle this.

 

Steve

 

PS

 

Unless I have missed it I see that Stuart from Watermill Garage has not commented on this.

 

Think that may be rather politic.

 

 

Another PS

 

I have also just noticed that you started this thread on 29th May stating you had seen him on Sat 28th.

It has been a Bank Holiday weekend.

What do you reasonably expect to have changed from Sat to Tuesday over a Bank Holiday?

Edited May 31, 2016 by Stevecross

[Lebro]

I would suggest that a good job is worth waiting for, even if it is a little frustrating.

 

Bob.

[Nigel A]

Hi Richard

 

I have to agree with the above, the last thing I wanted to do was to upset him, so never sent any emails always face to face and never got into an argument

 

On one occasion I even took Aydee along to sweet talk him, perhaps you should take Penny!

 

You should stress that tickets and ferries etc for Le Mans are all booked and you cannot miss another deadline.

 

Good luck

 

Nigel

[Richardtr3a]

Paint man was aiming for today, Saturday, and has not called. Last time that I called there was a good deal of swearing, not by me , and a promise to call when it is finished.

 

I am too old to be treated like that and asked my son to call on Friday evening.. He spoke to the father-in-law of the painter who married the boss's daughter.

 

The father explained that they were having problems and would call back on Monday.

 

I am going to ask my son to offer more payment for a completed job by Wednesday evening. Will this be a mistake?

 

Any advice welcome.

 

Richard & H.

[ts1144]

My painter does a great job , but my car is always" the fill in around his regular work" of modern cars. I found that by offering to help him, even if its only manual work, the job finally got finished.

The original job of removing all my previouse work, and aligning the wings etc, took a long time but was better with the two of us, and you get a relationship built up.

I also learnt some of his methods of work, my next car ,will have these things sorted, before I take it to him, he is a Painter, not a body man, and the body and fitting takes the time.

He may be sinking on his own , without any help, be his labourer and help him to help you.

Having the time to help him is easier, when you are retired, as I am.

A good thing to check before using these painters, is how many dusty , part done cars are stood around?

Chris

[boxofbits]

Richard

 

Regardless of the situation I would not be happy with some guy swearing at me simply because I was chasing progress.

 

As I said previously I think you should research your options and seriously consider uplifting the car and getting it finished elsewhere. From the guy's attitude it sounds like he has seriously breached that all important boundary of respect between company and client, and from that point on it usually doesn't improve, and he is treating you as at the back of his queue.

 

Not exactly a customer services Icon is he!

 

Why don't you look up classic vehicle services in your area tomorrow, explain the situation you're in, go and look at some of their work and discuss it through. You deserve better. Offer to pay the guy up to date and go get it.

 

Kevin

Edited June 5, 2016 by boxofbits

[rhino_mac]

I agree , get it out of there. It's maybe not the easiest option but repossess it and get it to someone civil. Once you've made the decision it will be a weight off your mind.

 

I had exactly the same thing with a local garage and it was a relief to get it to a professional.

 

Good luck, hope you get it sorted.

[Alec Pringle]

It seems like the painter is, for whatever reason, totally brassed off . . . . and the recent communications I'd have thought more likely to have exacerbated than relieved his discomfiture.

 

You're unlikely to be getting anywhere in a hurry Richard, relieve the man of his burden, pay him for what he's done and take the car away.

 

You're most unlikely to find a decent outfit who'll finish the job at short notice, meanwhile you have a front hub issue to sort, and presumably the car hasn't been run for months ?

 

And you mentioned in another topic that it absolutely must not throw a problem on the Le Mans trip . . . . . . ?

 

Plan B, forget the TR to Classic Le Mans, and decide which other car you'll be using and get it checked over and serviced ready for the trip.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Richardtr3a]

Today my son called the body shop and agreed with them, that the car would be collected on Saturday morning what ever the condition. They agreed that they were open and we will see what they do.

 

There has been no request for payment

 

I have contacted my local breakdown driver and he has agreed to collect the car with out fail.

 

I have also found a new paint shop very close to home who have agreed to finish any outstanding work in four days. I wish that I has found them earlier. The local service station introduced them. It is a new business just started. In future I shall always ask for a final date instead of trying to be helpful and fit in with the regular work load

 

The one interview that I am not looking forward to is paying for the work if it is not complete. I have not contacted them since the foul language telephone call. It is a shame that my son does not live closer.

 

Thanks for all the advice and watch this space.

 

Richard & H.

[Stevecross]

Richard

I am deeply sorry that you are having these problems but I am sorry to say that from what you have posted here you have brought a lot on yourself.

Comments such as sending an email that you knew would upset the guy were no help.

I am sure none of us here know the full story, we only have your comments so it is difficult to make a value judgement.

You are now relying on your son to mediate.

That must put him in an awkward position.

We all try to support each other but I feel that some of us here have started to feel a lot of problems are self inflicted by no clarity of instruction or any firm arrangement. That must be evidenced in that via your son an arrangement has been made to collect the unfinished car and you have no idea as to what payment is due.

Sorry to appear less than supportive but the world is a messy place and it is up to us to impose some sort of order on our dealings with others.

 

Best regards & good luck with your car.

 

Steve

 

Ps

 

Just noticed your comment

"there has been no request for payment"

What do you take from that?

No firm arrangement made?

You think that you owe them nothing for work done?

No comment has been made regarding any financial arrangement you made with these guys and what has been paid to date. I remind you of your earlier comments in that these people "have done the best work the car has seen in 20 years"

Steve

Edited June 8, 2016 by Stevecross

[Richardtr3a]

Hi Steve,

 

Thanks for your comments. The garage initially collected the car and gave me a price for the different areas of work. This was by email after I sent them the list of eight different repairs needed. I agreed the quote by email and understood that the work would take a couple of weeks, in a conversation with the actual technician and not the office. His wife works in the office in the mornings. His father-in-law has run the business for many years.

 

I have visited once with the new letters for the front panel so that the holes are correct and lined up . I was not confident in my own ability to drill correctly through a freshly painted panel. We spent 10 minutes discussing the car and I left him to carry on.

 

My son has agreed that the car will be collected and that they will try to finish. But if it is not completed my recovery truck will collect anyway.

 

I certainly owe them a lot of money and will pay up immediately when asked. I am worried about the settlement if the work is not complete. I really just want them to use the next two days to push the job through to completion. There has been no request for any stage payments so it is in their interest to improve cash flow and finish up.

 

I used this business because they had the car in before for the rear wing repair and carried out a first class job. After this initial test I decided that they were the right business to correct the bonnet gaps. The gaps were very tight at the front and wide at the back. This was caused by a NDM replacement front panel supplied by Moss over 20 years ago. This has been corrected by the garage and the bonnet gaps are now even. This is why I liked their work. They have also replaced missing captive nuts and a dent in the front wing caused by me driving into the coal scuttle stored at the back of the garage

 

The only problem that I have is the time taken to finish. My son is very experienced at dealing with problems of all sorts and we have helped each other over four decades. He is getting on well with the garage office staff.

 

The best outcome is that the paintwork is all completed in time.

 

Thanks Richard & H.

[RogerH]

Hi Richard,

I have just had the same experience but with an engine workshop.

Promised 2 months, then 3 month, then next week. On and on.

 

I have my stuff back now and up and running. However I did have to take it all to another workshop for them to sort out the awful mess they made.

 

The first machine shop were on the phone last week, happy as Larry. The engineer couldn't understand why OI wasn;t happy and why I had to buy a new cy head.

Anyway he has accepted my revised bill.

 

He sent through an e-mail apologising and stating that perhaps he is running his business all wrong. He will not have a business soon if he continues as is.

 

Roger

Edited June 9, 2016 by RogerH

[Bob Horner]

I think this kind of thing is very common in the motor trade. It's partly because things are often not as simple as they first appear. I think garages prefer not to have any paperwork - partly because paperwork is not their thing, partly because doing things properly paperwork-wise would cost them money in terms of admin cost and partly because they want the flexibility to add to the price as and when they like!

 

I think many garages don't want to think too hard at the start or commit themselves. Trying to get them to in any meaningful, written way is pretty impossible (if you got some paperwork it would be so heavily caveated that it would probably be useless). Also, they work on certain unwritten assumptions about what is "usually" included - those assumptions often seem bizarre to the average man or woman but perfectly normal in the trade. They are not usually great communicators but, not unreasonably, we tend to assume they are experts, professionals and also assume they will point out any uncertainties etc about time and cost. Generally they do not.

 

Add to that the common attitude that they know best (clearly many don't from the horror stories you hear)and you are some idiot who doesn't understand how these things work. I have a good relationship with the people I use but even so, sometimes things I think should be included in a "quote" are not. Cars are complicated mechanical things and what is lurking within the bodywork is even more of an unknown.

 

Don't think there is a solution that gives anyone any real certainty

 

Bob

[Stevecross]

Hi Richard & H

 

Thanks for reply.

 

Reading my post it may come across as rude. That was not the intention.

 

I suppose reading this thread I have felt your frustration but was looking for a logical reason for the situation to have developed to such a state that you were no longer prepared to talk to the guy.

 

After reading your reply I am still at a loss.

 

As you have made no stage payments for work done it would usually be in the garages interests to keep you sweet. It is usually when payment up front has been made that a company can lose interest. You have not mentioned what the garage say the problem is

(perhaps they under quoted but are one of the few co's. that are reluctant to ask for more?)

 

I suppose it could be a clash of personalities but perhaps you will never know.

 

I wish you all the best with your car collection and hope you can get the work finished soon. It appears you only need a small amount of work finishing. Can I suggest you make sure you collect any paint the garage is holding to finish to avoid any colour matching issues.

 

Good luck & best wishes

 

Steve

 

PS

 

If you were closer to me & I was not so busy trying to finish my TR2 I would offer to do it myself but you are on a deadline

Edited June 9, 2016 by Stevecross

[Stevecross]

Richard

 

You have a PM

 

Steve